I want some tips against the king of safe moves, Bison.
You told me you’re been playing Luffy recently right?
In that case Rose
Maybe Honda since that section was pretty lacking in the old thread and I think it is one of our hardest match ups harder than Bison imo
no no read what I posted before. I negate charges, THEN I do the st RH option select. I just don’t use TT to get the knockdown. Also keep in mind devil reverse can’t crossup(or its really hard) so I use breathless to cover this option which isn’t covered by Soulless. If you roll option vs devil reverse, breathless will catch him whereever Bison goes on screen.
I actually haven’t played Luffy in Super yet. I played him a good amount in Vanilla though. I’ll see what I can do.
So I’ve done much less today than I had planned… My power went out for a while thanks to a storm… but the day’s not over yet.
First up we’ve got former Abel main, current Abel traitor Ryan Hunter who left us for browner pastures, with Cody. He’s got some info on how Cody fights this fight.
I’m gonna give some of my own impressions in a little bit, and I’m gonna update the first post (and maybe the second) with a little blurb also.
I’ve put out some requests for some involvement from non-Abel players, and I’m gonna be doing some more, but I’d also like to put out the request for Abel mains… post up. If you’ve got good, complete, in depth shit, please post up.
For now, some guys are saying they think it’s too early to make calls (like I’ve been saying)… Valle said he’s not comfortable calling Abel/Ryu yet, as it’s changing a bunch. He cited Breathless as a major reason, which is interesting to me, since I think Breathless has limited use against Ryu… but that just goes to show that none of us know as much as we think. Still… let’s get something up there for now at least.
Everything going up now is very preliminary. I’m gonna hold off on trying to score any matches for a while. I’m still gonna give my impressions, and as much good info as possible though.
Ok, so Vega and Cody sections both updated.
I’m still being lazy though. Rough day. I’ll try to get shit up before the end of the night though.
Hav I really believe Tatsujinken needs to do the opposite of how he wants to win the match.
I feel a vega who is willing to lame it out, stay away and poke out a win [or set up a combo into an ex walldive] is much more potent then trying to rush abel down.
The risk is too great.
Vega hasn’t got the angles to rush an abel, he’s not like an ibuki, viper or akuma.
Everything Vega does is linear. [Except for his walldives but vs soullessism abel he’s risking half his life from a raw ultra.]
Interesting read though. Good stuff.
Well, I’m not really too interested in helping the other players learn how to beat Abel in this thread, I’m just trying to give an idea of how some of the best players see the Abel fight. Tatsu is the best Vega in the US, hands down, and I presume he has Abel experience, since SoCal has some strong Abel play, so that’s just his perspective.
abels cop
i’m using combofiend’s abel as my reference. anyone familiar with his playstyle can tell you how freaking insane he is at rushing down lol.
but who knows, my vega plays kind of whack/stupid/impatient so idk if this is the right answer for everyone, but i feel that it’s my own reply towards combofiend.
edit: also thank you hav for even considering me!
I don’t think Cody should ever reversal EX CU. I ALWAYS stuff that move. I can understand to use it for throw invul but it really isn’t that hard to hit him out of it
Abel >>>>> Cody in that matchup. c.lp is the perfect speed to hit him out of CU. Cody has such a hard time escaping Abel once he’s in close you can get up in his face and stay there all day with tick pressure…
couple small details - if Cody hits you with c.mk, he most likely is at frame disadvantage even on hit so feel free to press a button. He can make it more advantageous, but it is difficult to space because of how little it moves. I personally would prefer to use f+mp to punish the recovery of a roll because it still has good active frames and is big advantage on hit or block, leads to some beastly damage. Cody could also charge a bad stone to bait your roll, and then throw it to punish the recovery… that one starts combos, does decent damage and stun, and has big advantage on block. So if a Cody wants to do that, just jump over the rock. He can win AA trades w/bad stone if you jump in with jab or short by doing reversal forward ruffian but if you hit him with fierce or forward he probably won’t get it out in time.
vs. Vega the scariest thing he can do is the izuna loop. Abel’s only escape option is to try and dash out… his forward dash doesn’t make him very short, but it’ll work sometimes. His backdash isn’t a great option either since most likely the claw slash will come out and knock you down again but it’s all you’ve really got in that situation. The claw slash isn’t a hard knockdown like the izuna is, so that is your opportunity to disrupt his rhythm and escape.
small details - if the Vega wants to chip you and is using RCF, only the jab version makes a blockstring. the fierce takes forever to start and there is an opportunity there to escape. EX TT works best but since that move is so slow, you have to wait until he’s in range. It beats U1, focus and EX CoD. U2 works usually but there is no reason to use U2 in the Vega fight.
cr.lk is awesome against claw, keep him away especially at the start of the match when he has no meter. i found it a good move to just spam, kinda provokin the claw player.
I want to say I know what he’s talking about with Breathless. I wasn’t convinced at first with Breathless, but I see it’s uses against shotos. I wanted to avoid talking about it cause I’d have a hard time explaining it, especially when that big post by jaunty basically criticized Breathless’ short offerings. I’ve been using it against Ken and had success with it. Ken and Ryu have similar rushdown in-your-face styles plus the whole safe jump OSs, so I’m sure what I’m doing against Ken with Breathless will apply to Ryu as well.
Actually, I found something interesting with U2. I haven’t seen any posts about it or anything, but expect a video in the upcoming weeks. I’m busy with school/finals right now, but it’ll be something useful. Not sure if it’ll completely twist your opinion on breathless… but it should raise your eyebrows a little.
EDIT: hmm, maybe i’ll just do a whole video on breathless. =p
^ you can use breathless to fight vs any basic pressure game after a knockdown. Practically eliminating 50% of the characters pressure game.
Examples include
Rufus tornado xx jump in fierce meaty
Ryu jab DP, meaty jump in RH (but I would assume Ryu can just DP, but whatever)
Thread should just be renamed to “Press LK sometimes do a grab” IMO.
haha i find some truth in this post
I dont understand this option select. Is the qcf using neg. edge to make a roll come out? I dont see how that would work it seems to me close RH’s whiff would take to long to option a roll. A couple that I experimented w/ involves using Abel’s chainable normals. For example:
:db:+LK+LP, then buffer a special motion, then :db:+LK+LP
The trick is to input the second :db:+LK+LP to where it chains with the first, but late enough that if you were too whiff the first, your special will come out.
For neutral jumpers you can do:
:db:+LK+LP,:qcf::db:+LK+LP and you’ll get a L.Roll to the other side. Otherwise you’ll get 2 crLK which you can use to tick into a command grab or frame traps.
For backdashers:
:db:+LK+LP, MP+MK+LP(hold it down for a little):r::r: This will give you a dash. You can get a third LP in if you continue to hold MK+MP and hit LP with your pointing finger. You got to be careful not to press focus too fast otherwise you might focus the LK. You can skip the dash and use this one for a Neutral jumping Chun since she has that double kick where rolling wouldnt be that useful unless you Hk roll to get away.
I’ve been spending all my time on Juri so I havent tried these out on Super but they worked in SF4. In SF4 os’ing into falling Sky didnt work to well as it would do it too early off of one normal and too late off of 2. Maybe its a little better now with the supposed Falling Sky buff.
Thinking about it some more If your quick enough you can os into Ultra which is extremely deadly since you can hold Ultra II :wow:
:db:,:df:+LK+LP,::qcf:,:db: +KKK
Anyways I think you’ll get the idea. You can os pretty much anything even jumps off of chainables.
Errr…maybe this belongs in the os thread
eh wtf with the down back motion??
Try them…in training mode…I think you’ll be able to figure it out…
c.LP is only the perfect speed if they’re both done at the same time. Not saying it can’t or wont happen, it can and does, but I just wanted to clarify that, because in situations like after a CoD FADC where Abel has a good frame advantage, this can make a very big difference. You need to be familiar with which situations you’re at frame advantage and which you’re neutral. Like after a blocked (non-FADCed) CoD, c.LP is likely to stuff a reversal EX CU.
It should also be noted here, we’re not talking major disadvantage. If it’s spaced at all decently, it’s usually around -1. Even if it’s -2, keep in mind Cody has a good 4f c.LP and c.LK, while Abel’s looking at 5 and 6f pokes with comparable range. If the c.MK is blocked, that’s another story.
Actually, even though it looks like it has a lot of hitting frames, t.MP only has 3. It can definitely be a good option for punishing rolls because of the damage potential like you mentioned, but you’re wrong about the frame advantage on block. It’s only +1 on block. Could be +3 if you timed it so meaty the last activate frame is the one they blocked, but that’s not “big” advantage regardless.
If you were going to use a move with 3 active frames, t.MP is probably the one I would use, but personally, I’m still getting used to being on the other end of the Abel rolls, so I stick to the safer punishes. But it’s definitely player preference.
This is also way harder then it sounds. People that don’t play Cody don’t realize how much delay there is from the time you release the button to when Cody actually releases the rock. I would say it’s basically impossible to react to the roll with the release of the rock. Not only in terms of reacting, but also you have to time it correctly to hit that one frame of recovery. I don’t really think it’s practical. You might be able to anticipate the roll by doing a rock throw with a set delay, regardless of what he does, but holding the rock and reacting to the roll isn’t really possible.
Plus, if a Cody was doing that to me, I’d just start rolling and buffering Ultra motion, and try to ultra after the roll on reaction to the Rock. If the rock misses the 1f recovery on the Roll, he loses the round basically. Not really good risk vs reward.
EDIT: Oh also, I should mention, you can really only combo off a Rock with U2, and hit confirming off a non-EX rock is pretty hard. Truly hit confirming it (like in this scenario, where you’re not sure if you’re going to hit the recovery frame) fast enough to link U2 is difficult to the point where I wouldn’t try it. It’s more practical to hit confirm it by seeing them start a move that you know the Rock will counter hit. EX Rocks are hit confirmable alone, but you can’t hold/delay EX Rocks at all, so we wouldn’t be talking about baiting a Roll with a delayed throw anymore.