Why would it have to be ex? I am pretty sure that vanilla wheel kick would suffice seeing how it’s invincible waist down as well.
maybe because it has quicker startup?
i think i found a decent setup for breathless… on knockdown, do a late(but not too late) roll that will put you out of most of your opponents cancellable normals, thats gonna be the range where all of the jumps(back, up, front) are gonna be in range for breathless.
refer to this video [media=youtube]p5_Tfa0Jpbo[/media]
oh and at around 2:24 mark, after blockin the first hit of cod, the ryu did hp shoryu and it traded with 2nd middle(proly for the same amount of damage)… which is good if you asked me 
naw, because I thought Blanka’s U2 would count as a projectile and so EX wheel kick would go through the lightning. I don’t think regular wheel kick would clear it.
I fought Daigo on Friday. Here’s what I learned specifically about fighting Ryus who play his style (moving wall of normals) and Ryus in general. Some of it might seem obvious, but his style is honestly so basic that the match comes back to fundamentals very quickly.
Soulless is definitely the preferred ultra. It shuts down the fireball game entirely and forces them to play a footsies game with you. Ryu has quite a few good escapes for Breathless at any decent range, and the things that Breathless will stop him from doing aren’t things that you should be having problems dealing with at any rate. Removing his fireball game is much, much more valuable.
In a footsies situation - even against The Beast - st.lk and cr.lk will let you stand your ground. At worst, cr.lk will trade with cr.mk at all distances and deny them their buffered fireball or DP. On that note, don’t throw out EX CoD as a counter-poke too often. If they catch on, they’re going to start putting out pokes with things buffered into them and you’re going to get hurt.
If you block a cr.MK with a fireball buffered into it, the resulting fireball will not combo if you were at a distance. Focus and prepare to dash in for a free command grab after absorbing the fireball. Again, moderation or they’ll start buffering EX hado and you’ll burn for it.
LP/EX Falling Sky should be thrown out whenever you see a jump-in coming at the right angle, and you should be capitalising on the knockdown it gives you with an instant backdash and ambiguous roll. It may be the only chance you get to land a serious combo. It will grab Air Tatsus as well as most of Ryu’s jumping normals. I landed this a couple of times and it was a real momentum shift, even if it was only in my mind. Pretty sure I heard him say “hmph” when it connected. I felt fucking pimp. I know it’s hard to break a two year habit of not using it outside of combos, but it’s worthwhile now. Note: It will never beat meaties.
Block. Ryu doesn’t have any mixups that are going to make you hurt. The worst thing that’s going to happen if you fall asleep while you down-back is that you’re going to eat a throw or F+MP from him. Those are alot better than the fucking huge combo you’ll wear if you mash OS tech and he lands a CH cr.MP on you. Seriously, just block.
Buffer the shit out of that ultra. If you’re outside poking range and he’s playing his back-and-forth game to get spacing on you, buffer that ultra. A fireball may or may not come, but when you’re just outside Ryu’s cr.MK range, having the ultra buffered will mean that any fireball that comes out is going to cost him 500 health. Beware of the st.lk feint. Don’t get too tense. Not buffering the ultra cost me a round against Daigo. He tested my reactions by throwing out EX Hado at an unsafe range and I wasn’t fast enough. Had I been buffering, the round was over. Lesson learned.
I’ll be doing a blog writeup later this week on what I learned in a more general sense and gameplans and whatnot, but in all honesty it was the most enjoyable Street Fighter I’ve ever played, and I learned more in that match and from watching him in person than I have in the past 6 months.
I think a good portion of the Ryu section just got written. That is pretty much exactly how I feel about Ryu. Soulless is the only choice, press stand short, don’t take unnecessary risks (on O or D), hit him hard when you get the chance.
Good shit.
Also worth mentioning that cr.HK is now a viable footsies tool, but like everything else, in moderation. The addition of LP Falling Sky to our arsenal of legit anti-airs and all of the benefits you reap from landing it can’t be emphasized enough.
Hitting Daigo’s air-tatsu with it and the way it turned the match from me trying not to get steamrolled by the wall of cr.MP/MKs into me getting to run the guessing train on him was invaluable both in terms of trying to win the match and stopping my brain from shutting down because I’d run out of ideas on how to score a knockdown.
Breathless is a really silly choice for this matchup, and I saw alot of people take it in all of their Ryu matchups. Off the top of my head I can think of 3 or 4 answers Ryu has on reaction depending on distance and meter, but none of them end well for Abel.
Between Daigo and one of my pool matches against another Ryu at EVO APAC, I think I’ve pressed st.lk more in two days than in the last 6 months combined.
Also I’ve learned that I run out of concentration-juice after two days and start doing sloppy shit. That and there is no fear like the fear of Daigo’s Ryu walking towards you.
Yeah… I mean… Instant Air Tatsu gets Ryu out of Breathless for free… and to my knowledge, you can’t punish anything Ryu’s normally do with Breathless, that you couldn’t punish with Soulless, and you lose the comboability which is huge, IMO.
Breathless turns some of his footsies options into a risk, but the end result is that you’re making him give up on cr.MK and come closer to you to use his cr.MP which is honestly even more horrible to deal with since it combos into itself for an easy DP/Tatsu/Sweep hit confirm. I’m much happier when he’s hovering at cr.MK range and scared shitless of fireballing me.
When you look at it like that, Breathless is dumb for that match. Ken I’m not so sure about, but Ryu is a done deal for me.
When I started planning my game against Daigo, one of the first questions I asked myself was “Can I reasonably expect Daigo to do something that will give me enough time to notice it, input breathless, gauge his reaction to the flash, and then release it at the right time?” The answer was a clear no. Very clear. On top of that, I also asked myself if I could reasonably expect Ryu - that is the character, not the player - to have a solid answer for Breathless on reaction. I could think of two very reliable ones immediately. More if he had meter. I also knew I wasn’t going to be handed many, or any, openings for a combo, and that if I did get one, I had to make it count. Soulless makes combos count.
It’s absolutely clear cut that soulless is the choice. Anybody who thinks Breathless gives them the edge in that matchup hasn’t spent more than a second really thinking about it.
Edit: My take on Breathless so far is that it’s really designed as an anti-mixup tool. It’s our only move that works as an answer to more than two choices at a time. It evens out the Gief matchup pretty nicely (Still calling it 4-6, mind you) and it gets us out of situations like Boxer shenanigans, even if it’s just by the threat of it keeping people honest. I don’t find it useful against characters who I can predict, or who’s mixup revolves entirely around me eating a throw or a fucking enormous combo because I tried to tech a throw that never came. I’d say at this point it’s about a 50/50 split in the cast as to which ultra I think is more useful.
My rule of thumb so far for matches that I care about is to only use Breathless if I see it shutting down troublesome options that I otherwise don’t have a good answer for. This includes Zangief’s everything and Guy’s annoying as hell command jumps. I never expect to land it in a match, I just expect it to keep the other guy honest. If it doesn’t, it will soon enough.
Yeah no doubt.
I also usually shut down most of Guy’s command jumps with lp falling sky.
As soon as you hear him say “Geezer” take that boy out of the sky.
You mostly only need to worry about it crossing up but once you know the spacing you can shut down his air game quite convincingly.
Incidentally you can, if you’re feeling fruity, predict his running over head with an early [after he runs but before the move] lp falling sky.
Good stuff from Jaunty. Thank you.
Anyone got any good experience vs Fuerte? Im looking for a button that just wins that match? No such thing? darn. It feels like wen he gets U2, i can barely move. No jump. No Roll. Cant Even poke really if they have good reactions. Cant really even dash if hes lookin for it. And since Abel walks as fast as Frankenstein, i feel i get really locked down once he gets U2.
Ok so normally I’m not one to ask for help because I don’t believe in spoonfeeding and I hate not figuring things out for myself, but is there anything new regarding the Rufus match??
This is honestly the only match where I feel completely helpless.
Aside from the basic basic basic basic stuff of AAing with st mk from far away, predicting a divekick and jumping or AAing with FS, and rolling out of divekick pressure(which can be option selected with a low dive xx throw) I feel like Abel has nothing new to bring to the table in Super for this match.
I’m considering just specifically learning Bison JUST for this match, but I wanna see if Abel has any hope in this match.
Any ideas??
far standing forward, not the command stepkick but the other one works great
I said that
Okay, former Rufus player saying… slk/smk/cmk, stepkick, and LP/EX falling skies are your best bet. Never crouch tech, always late tech. ALWAYS. or you will die.
basically keep him out, the match sucks but it’s still winnable. you’ve got AA options, but you really have to know exactly which ones to use. Abel’s buffed FS from Super helps this match but it’s a prediction thing, which means if he does triangle jump you’re going to eat it. shit sucks.
edit: forgot low strong, that’s situationally useful as well.
This is another match where about 75% if your damage is coming from pokes and short strings. Rufus doesn’t have much he can do about st.lk on the ground and there isn’t much he can do about AA from normals. If you’re ever unsure on which AA to use, use cr.mk.
You basically spend most of each round keeping him out and nibbling away with pokes, and then capitalizing on the eventual dumb shit that comes when he’s desparate.
If you do score a knockdown, don’t worry about getting damage off of it, try to bait him into spending some meter.
If you get knocked down, just block. Worst thing that happens is you miss a tech and get thrown. You’ll have to get comfortable with sitting tight through dive kick pressure. If you see him go a little too high, cr.lp will reset him. There’s a 50% chance of EX messiah as soon as he lands.
It’s a patience match once he gets EX messiah. Before that you can style in him a bit if you knock him down, otherwise, kick the shot put of him.
I reccommend Breathless over Soulless. Having it loaded will make him think twice about how many divekicks he can get away with. Just be aware that the threat of it can be more useful than actually landing it, and try to hold onto it until it’ll win a round.
I don’t know about that. It’s easier for Rufus to dive kick to bait/counter poke Abel’s AAs than it is for Abel to AA Rufus’ dive kick.
I’m not sure about new things from sf4 to ssf4, but I have a few good tricks vs rufus. after a pressure dive in from rufus, c.HP~c.lp+c.lk seems to always work for me. If they go for another dive kick, your c.HP will counter, if they grab you will tech, and if they combo you will block.
on knock down
c.HK is a safe pressure option on rufus wakeup - his EX messiah will go over your head and you can punish.
mix up safe jump in attacks, with empty jump TT. if he does ex messiah, block standing and do a light roll -> TT to punish a standard follow-up.
If you’re being punished for your choice of anti-airs, you’re choosing the wrong anti-air. Like I said, use cr.mk when you’re unsure. It’s safe enough when it whiffs and it gets your hitbox nice and tiny so there’s a minimal chance of a trade.