well 2nd low is always risky to do, again i dont have ssf4 yet (sometime next week or 2 weeks from now ill get it) but in vanilla, if you go second low they can block and late throw so that if you went 2nd high they would block and if you go 2nd low you will get thrown. the only time i do that is if i really wanna test the waters and see what he does. i dont really ever do it though. good to know that info if i try to do it but if they can still block/throw before 2nd low comes out and block 2nd high if u go for it im not gonna be going 2nd low that much at all.
i guess i just wanted to know what other options i have to play mindgames with… especially since CoD is safe on block against him.
@HAV you reminded me of the Makoto threads, 99% of the replies just whine about something they couldn’t do. I barely find anything useful.
Edit: Forgot to post something about Akuma. If you j.mp on him and then follow up with cr.lp it’ll whiff, so you always have to use cr.lk instead.
I still don’t know if I want to put a lot of faith into FS as a useful AA. It’s good if you connect, but I’ve been stuffed/whiffed/traded a lot of times when I felt like throwing it out. It’s even worse, cause if you whiff or get stuffed you’ll end up getting your ass handed to you in a lunchbox via mail order jump-in combo. Whereas cr.hp is easier to do on a late reaction and if you get the juggle hit you can do first hit cod > ex FS instead of putting all your eggs in one basket with just an FS (and you get style points). Worst thing that can happen is that you trade and you still get the juggle or it resets them. Much better than eating a whole jump-in pringles.
Thats not the worst thing that can happen. Cr.hp can get stuffed by many moves too.
In the end it all comes down to using the proper tools at the proper spacing, time, against the proper moves.
Yes. Jumping is 4 frames and the person is considered airbourne. If it wasn’t fast enough, you would be looking at an unblockable ultra, lol.
You can punish any of hondas Headbutts if you’re STANDING and blocking with U2 reversal
Cr.blocking only lp mp and hp
Been fighting mainly Ibuki lately and looks like we have another momentum based fight on our hands here. Few wrong guesses on wakeup, 70% of life gone and dizzied.
Vs. Ibuki
-Be prepared to block low at a moments notice, she has a fast sweep(-9 on block) and the *neckbreaker command grab(-13 on block all versions). A kd from the neckbreaker can lead to a 50/50 situation with her ambiguous kunais which on hit allows her to connect her target combo into another neckbreaker and the fun starts all over from there. Her jumping double kick(Which can be followed up with super or kunais on the EX version), hien, is heavily telegraphed and her OH is slow as shit so you could block those on reaction.
-Be wary of the +*Raida(energy orb grab) It can be used to bait techs, TT’s(Yes, it beats all TT’s) and it can be used to compensate for her lacking footsie tools(too much yomi on their part or too much button pressing on ours). Although if blocked it can be punished via reversal timing U1/U2, CoDs, step kick, cr-fwd, st. short, use your imagination that shit’s pretty bad on block. But Ex is her safest, she’s only at -9.
-Her footsies suck. St. short does a great job at stifling her. But don’t get too trigger happy, ie; predictable, refer to “+”.
-Command dash is throw invulnerable. Hit her out of that shit.
-Blocked dragon kick can be punished like the srk. But ex version should be punished via reversal FS because she can follow up with kunai, before grabbing her the FS will knock out the kunai if she follows up immediately no point in delaying the kunai for her she’ll be on the ground the hard way already.
-Don’t bother wasting meter on ex wheel kick vs kunai, it will lose.
-Super is safe on block.
-Leave her Breathless(reversal timing) if she uses short, or rh spinning kicks(tsumuji). Fwd version is completely safe on block(-0). She can follow up low with the rh and ex versions so be mindful of that.
-Anti-Airing her can be tricky because she can delay her descent by kunai. But the usual tools work well against her. I was getting good mileage on the cl. fp.
*Armor-break
a little to add re ibuki from a scrub’s perspective: I’ve been using her for the past week and she’s got so much unsafe shit it’s ridiculous, (ie: if she mistimes a kunai toss it can be unsafe even on hit) and her footsies are really truly awful, she’s similar to abel in that her specials are all unsafe to just throw out, but her footsies are actually worse than abels cause she has no really strong poke like s.lk.
her best footsy/poke is (if she’s close enough) her s.lk cancel to s.mk cancel to spinning kicks, which are safe on block if they use the mk version (+0 frames on block), the problem for ibuki is that her s.lk is not that great. also her s.lp is 3 frames and leaves her at a +8 on hit, but for her to use it then she has to be standing almost inside your hitbox the range is so short
but its not an exaggeration to say she can take away 70% life if you make a bad guess on a single reset that a monkey could perform execution-wise, if her footsies weren’t so much ass then i’d think she was borderline broken
So Hopefully someone has discovered shit VS Thawk.
Only thing I could come up with was…
- Dash up LP TT punishes blocked condor dive
- U1/U2 punishes blocked condor dive
- C.mk stuffs jump ins.
That’s really all I’ve needed. For the other part I just treat him like a Gief without lariat once they get tired of you punishing their dives.
throws are better in super…
C.fp dominates a condor dive and it juggles him as well so ultra one might be better suited for playing agaisnt t hawk since it’s so easy to punish a condor dive on reaction
Did some testing last night… The Chun infinite is still in. But the Rufus one is gone… What gives ?
I figured out that push back on Abels light crouching normals has increased. In the Chun infinite (f+mk xx dash, st.lp xx cr.lp, st.lp, st.lp rinse, repeat) there’s only one crouching normal, whereas in the Rufus infinite there are two (f+mk xx dash, st.lp xx cr.lk xx cr.lp, st.lp)
Test 1: After testing Rufus first and finding out the last st.lp whiffed, I figured it may have just been the range on st.lp that had been tweaked, as Rufus’ reeling animation is still the same (it’s possible his reeling hitbox may have been tweaked, but I’ve theorised against this because there’s evidence across the whole game of reeling animations not being adjusted… it’s a huge blanket, but bear with me…) - so I tried the Chun infinite and it still worked, which started lending credence to my push back theory
Test 2: F+mk xx dash, cr.lk xx cr.lp, st.mp xx CoD. The timing on this has changed dramatically. In SF4, this worked on the entire cast, whereas now, with the same timing, you’ll get far st.mp on the majority of the cast. It’s still possible, but the timing is definitely stricter this time around, and against some characters, it just won’t work because of hit reel animations. This can be reproduced by setting the dummy to record the combo (recorded against Deejay, as it worked on him) and then seeing what results you come up with. I didn’t have time to test everyone, but I definitely couldn’t get it on Makoto and Rufus with my timing.
What implications does this have ? I’ve yet to find out concretely… but theory would indicate that hit confirm combos are a little more range dependent now, as cr.lk, st.hp may give the far version in some instances… I also have a sneaky suspicion my favourite hit confirm combo (ambi roll on opp. wakeup, cr.lk xx cr.lp, cr.lk xx super) may not work any more, but this obviously needs more testing.
My input on Ibuki as I was trying to main her but her limitations are severe. Her footsies are terrible, so her approaching you with normals is minimal. Her df.MK is okay, but mostly not safe unless spaced perfectly.
Don’t worry about her vortex so much. Its only really a vortex off a few knockdowns, the rest are impossible or near impossible to set up and cross up. st.jab to sweep into vortex with her is basically impossible so always block correct side and if they time it wrong punish them severely.
Vortex cheat sheet:
- Neckbreaker: Best vortex setup, if they go for crossup, there is a high chance it will whiff on you so be ready to punish.
- EX Neckbreaker: Basically impossible to be crossed up after this knockdown on a vortex.
- Raida: no
- cr.j cr.j st.j cr.HK: No crossup on vortex possible. Maybe from st.j cr.hk without the crouching jabs for pushback.
- forward/backward throws: Maybe, but they will need to be precise with their walking distances, and even then there is basically no time to jump and kunai in time.
In general, vortex is hard to do, and most setups really can’t crossup. Block it regular, and prepare to throw tech. If it whiffs… you have TONS of time to throw her/TT her. Seriously the recovery is silly after Kunai.
In general, be patient with her. Block high if she does the launcher target combo, chances are she will go into another one so prepare to block low after the first 2 hits of it. Early jump normals will be her if she tries to approach with Kunai, so kick their ass if they are bad enough to do that.
T. Hawk’s DP is also really REALLY easy to cross up, and I think it whiffs under you instead of autocorrecting. My friend (Ryu player) couldn’t get it to autocorrect except for whiffing under my jumping MK because he’s so tall.
It’s hard to explain and I’m high. I’ll try to make a video. Basically, I found a way to do cross up jumping MK meaty that’ll make DPs either way whiff or get stuffed because T. hawk’s standing hitbox is xbox huge.
Don’t know if someone already mentioned this but st.mp pretty much shuts down Adon’s wall kick bs. Go to training mode and learn the timing (not very hard though).
Versus Makoto, you can pretty much backdash through everything she has. She doesn’t really have any strong option selects she can punish you with. Also, you can throw Makoto out of almost everything she has. When she’s knocked down, pressure her HARD. She has no real wake up options. The only one I can think of is ex orochi, but you can throw her out of that lol. You can throw her out of her command grab too. Normal throw is three frames, and she has no normals that start up in three frames. Most start at 5 or above, so you can throw her out of alot of her normals too.
You don’t really need to worry about her, just rush her down. Her walk speed is horrible, and I feel like Abel can play the footsies game better than her, so its pretty easy to get in on her as compared to, say Ryu. The only thing you really need to worry about is making an obvious jump. Makoto can punish for about 350+ damage for one bar. Fukage into Fukage into ex Tsurugi. Also, don’t try to cross her up too much when she has ultra 1. She can ultra 1 your cross up, also jump ins too.
Well that just comes with spacing also. But I hear what your saying. I just dont wanna risk trying to cross him up and getting caught in hawks vortex.
It’s because T. Hawk’s DP doesn’t have invincibility frames. According to the frame data that’s out there, not even his EX DP has invincibility frames.