Breathless = Cheap?

http://shoryuken.com/media.php?do=details&mid=2404#comments

Or not…

Sabin’s a damn good player, yet got hit with it constantly. Getting hit with an ultra constantly is typical, but typical of ultra’s that can be set up and combo’ed. Breathless is not one of those…so in my scrub opinion, I’d say that yes, Abel’s U2 is overpowered in a bubble: which is to say, overpowered by itself, given its options, risk/reward, and damage. In its proper context, because Abel is a character with not as many wake up options, or efficient footsies, it’s ‘balanced’…either way it is an incredibly powerful tool not just over what it does directly, but over what it does indirectly.

It’s not quite Metsu Haduken, but then nothing is.

First off, I agree with what most of the people here seem to be saying in that it is good, but the people who think it’s overpowered and ridiculous are simply the people that haven’t learned that it can almost always be evaded other than whiff punishing or block punishing very unsafe stuff.

But, scrub question…why do people (at least here on page 9) keep saying it’s essential against Honda to punish headbutts? U1 punishes headbutts without even having to block them first. In my experience, if they’re anywhere on the screen and do medium, heavy or ex headbutt, just U1 on reaction and it’ll always hit. The only thing you have to worry about is lp. headbutts from full screen, and it moves slow enough to react to and not push the ultra button after you buffer in the double qcf if they used lp.

Though, I suppose it would be nice for those times honda throws a headbutt at you when he’s standing close enough to you to make out, heh.

Stop doing bad jumps. When Abel has Breathless you’re not supposed to jump pretty much period.

Yeah Ryder definitely had some solid trip guard style setups for the U2 and u kinda have to guess if he starts it up from a distance while you’re near the corner. Though a lot of times Arturo got caught he could have clearly escpaed if he jumped forward over the ultra. There was at least 4 times where Arturo opted to jump back or backdash when a forward jump would have taken him clearly over the ultra. Especially that one time when Ryder did breathless in the corner.

“I have no situational awareness and don’t respect the options available to my opponent, therefore those options are bullshit/cheap/overpowered”

-this thread

Someone lock this shit.

I like when people jump, and then I dont do anything, and then they feel stupid, and then Abel kills them :slight_smile:

yea its real cheap, especially since u can FA backdash it in the corner
looks at Guile and shakes fist

I had a Gief yesterday who tried to jab breathless. After that didn’t work, he opted to try crouch blocking.

It was a good day.

Ah Breathless.
The charge character’s natural predator.

Cheap isn’t the word I’d use for it. If it were impossible to avoid, I’d defer to that logic.
Effective is more the term.

Got a charger running defensive d/b charges for opportunistic counters? Breathless.
Avoided a random, whiffed, or baited shoryuken or tatumaki senpu kyaku? Breathless.
Fighting a large character at all? Breathless.

d’oh. slow arse laptop.
My bad for double post.

U2 is very powerful and can work much like Giefs u1 in a meta mind game kinda way. The threat of it alone gives you 8/10 guaranteed actions by ur OPP. People are go to stay more grounded, closer to you opening up your mixup ground game.

Sadly for me it is “broken”, since the 2 peeps i play the most have the MOST difficulty dealing with it. My best defense is to stay close so that if it activates I can jump over. Cant get sloppy when Abels got U2 glowing.

Let’s not mimic the vanilla threads.

EX: Trade SRK to Ultra = cheap!?
Sagat, OP or Broken!?
How do I do F.MK to St.Fp?
How do I do St.mk xx Hands!?

I can’t believe this conversation is still going on… I don’t think it’s that hard to beat, as soon as you see the Ultra flash, you have plenty of time to jump forward or back and avoid it. A lot of characters can just do an aerial move that changes their trajectory like a Hurricane Kick, a Kunai, a Jaguar Kick or whatever else you may have. You can also do a move the takes you off the ground into an un-throwable state.

If you see the flash, and you think they will charge it/hold it, you can try to armor break them.

If you are mid screen, I’m pretty sure you can always jump either back or forward (depending on your distance) and avoid it.

If you do jump, empty jump and try to jump again or armor break immediately as you hit the ground. A lot of times Abel will miss-time U2 looking for a aerial attack which has a higher recovery on landing than an empty jump. The empty jump changes up the timing ever so slightly but can work in your favor.

lol i cant believe you replied with the above post, repeating things that have been said in this thread…

this thread might have some uses to discuss on some legit U2 stuff, but whatever… no point repeating stuff already been said in this thread again and again… and then go “cant believe this is still goin” without realizin youre keepin it goin too hehe

When you put it like that, it doesn’t sound very cheap. Something is off about it though; It doesn’t feel rewarding when you land it on someone like Soulless does. I don’t think it’s cheap when you can go through a projectile, I just think it’s cheap with you get someone on a fuck up like when Viper does her flame kick, and you can land it on her. I just think it’s cheap along with everything else you said because there is no skill when using it, and it does so much damage.

Ya’ll want it fu****g strait? SF4 was my first fighting game (used to play 3S Makoto in the past but not super competitively), and I played Abel from the start. As an O.G. Abel, go look up the best Abel vids there are–ones of Shiro, the only well-known (and commonly found Japanese placing Abel as far as most of us outside of Japan are concerned).

Recently, maybe a few months or so back, I believe he was knocked out of pools (POOLS!) by a albeit good Sagat, but one which played the match-up correctly–little to no specials were used, little to no TU’s were even made/canceled except when Shiro left open a big punish, as only pokes to TS blockstrings were going on. Now as I see it a win’s a win, but what you have to deal with when you chose a character you like should be balanced (responsibly by the developers), and what Abel had to deal with back then was rediculous.

I’m insulted by many players for using a supposed “top-tier”, when coming from vanilla, he was in the bottom to arguably top mid (no higher!) category, as he was a gamble character who fluctuates depending on risk & playstyle, not to mention fs being useless outside of ending a combo, pokes being slow, TT being a gamble (balanced yes, but still it is not a solid move such as scissor kick/hadou), almost useless wheel kick, since FS did more damage in combos, and you’d have to psycic it vs a good player, CoD not being useful outside of combos/punishes since slow startup, and negative on block, bad sweep, made matchups such as Zang 8-2, later on 6-4, but 7.5-3.5 IMO…

many things.

The trade to Ultra, Sagat’s FMK insult to injury T-Destruction, Bisons’ St.hk, st.mk, scissor kicks and many get-aways (teleport unpunishable escape outside of Soul-less), Blanka (though supposedly 6-4 Abel) was a bitch to deal with for almost every tourny Abel player I talked to. The Dhalsim matchup, Ken’s mix-ups, speed meter-building for SRK-cancel guesses outside of pressure, Gen’s EX Kick on wake-up giving Abel zero wake-up pressure. I know I’m wasting my breath (opt to not make a Breathless pun, but feel free :D) but I figuire I’d get to maybe hear some sentiments from a few intelligent Abel players who know how it was and is.

We got EX Falling Sky.
We got Breathless, better than counter ultras, but still, not combo-able–just a good Ultra.
Sweep? Doesn’t change much on his list of problems

We didn’t get acclaimed improved pokes such as St.Lp, or a faster start-up st.Hp. Cr.mk’s application outside of AA is useless due to it being 3 pixels longer than cr.mp, and dealed less damage, so he still has a small list of ground pokes, especially against Balrog matchup (what do you do when you’re in the corner? Cr.lk? What else? Pray… / 1/2 sarcasm).

/end rant

EDIT: DO feel free to nominate for an article! haha…ha…sigh

ssup OG

hahahahahahahaha

Get outta here with that BS. Learn to play and quit bitching.

i like to use it in footsies lol sometimes people press too many buttons

hay guys, so jus wondering, is there any consensus on if breathless is cheap or not? IMO move is cheap as fuck