/thread
:lol:
I openly admitted it was merely an initial impression and one which was not based upon much experience. I mentioned the possibility of my opinion changing after more experience in attempting to counter it (that part you seem to have conveniently snipped from the direct quote).
Either way, no matter how much experience I get with this ultra, for Abel, it will always be a low-risk mix-up opportunity for huge damage.
I don’t think anyone would say that Shun Goku Satsu was a bad ultra. Breathless is essentially all that SGS is but blindingly faster, armoured, cancel-able AND delay-able, the only cost seemingly a fraction lower damage, all this and on a character as heavily built as Abel.
Why does Abel get all this preferential treatment? Why isn’t Fuerte’s U2 delay-able, cancel-able, and armoured? Being delay-able is enough but jeez… they couldn’t stop heaping perks on this thing.
I don’t think we’re overstating the power of Breathless. I think you’re understating it.
But, as I said, my opinion may change with more experience Vs. it. Right now, though, on paper, this shit seems whack.
Hold up, why is it a low risk mixup again? Its just as risky(if not worse) like any mixups, sure it does a lot of damage, its an ultra. Cancelling it waste precious revenge meter and has long enough recovery(20 frames according to guide, havent tested yet) to be punished…
Whiffing it can be safe or used to get out of corners etc, but people can punish that dependin on how they reacted to the ultra in the first place.
Anyway, breathless is also scary to deal with when abel’s cornering you but at least if he whiffed it, he wont be that far away for punishment.
At least vega can walljump in the corner on reaction to U2…
Fuerte’s Ultra is 3 frame start up. It doesn’t need anything else. You press a button against Fuerte’s U2 or whiff ANYTHING slightly outside of sweep range U LOSE. Not as easy to do with Abel’s. He has to condition u a lot more.
Able’s Ultra 2 is in some ways a better SGS Ultra but it’s not like Abel has anything close to the same power in tools that Akuma has overall. Abel is still free on wake up, still has a sub par footsie game that even Vega can easily beat and still has to work pretty damned hard to close the gap in most of his matchups. SGS is still faster by 3 frames any way and Akuma has a lot of slick ways to set it up off mix ups that Abel can’t quite do with his ultra.
You’re acting as though being able to cancel it is not an inherent advantage. It is not a ‘waste’ of revenge if you cancel it. Cancelling the ultra does not consume meter, activating the ultra does. It was a waste that you used it in the first place at a bad time. Being able to cancel it just gives you an option if you fuck up.
not sayin that its not an advantage, but its not THAT big of an advantage since it shouldnt really be used much(there are scenarios where you have a big life lead and just wanna bait shit out etc, even then its risky)
plus if you fucked up, you fucked up. cancelling helps at rare times, the fact that abel loses the ultra meter and open to be punished doesnt help. and the times ive get away with cancelling were only because my opponents didnt know shit about what happened, on the other hand ive gotten punished super hard by PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW U2 WORKS when they saw me cancelled the ultra. so yeah.
i dont think we’re understating the power of U2, its great in some matchups, decent in most and terrible in some. the problem right now is obviously people who dont know how to deal with shit YET(be it from lack of experience or mere stupidity) and decided to cry and post stupid shit/complaining non stop instead of discussin properly. Plus come on man, like someone said earlier, abel users are the ones who have been testing with U2 the most and based from that hundreds/thousands of matches(compared to only a few matches of those who complained)… i bet its more towards other people overstating it than us understating it.
abel players dont mind sharing out information at all if asked properly, but it gets annoying when people want to learn but come in saying how that shit is fuckin cheap, that its too fuckin good, no escape, hard/impossible to counter, compare it to other ultras in the game, why is it so good(like any of us can actually answer this question? so its more towards crying/whining to me)…
and not wantin to start shit with you or anything DHEvil but you already admitted of having too little experience against the move to actually say anything more… maybe its time to play/test more than post? you keep trying to argue and all based on the ideas in your head, all of this against people with a lot more experience of using and going against it than you(and being abel, not that much option)
oh and some people are saying as if only jumping can beat out TT… backdash works too, sure they can random U2 you backdashing(or if you got too predictable with the backdashes), but backdash is good enough to escape abels pressure and punish whatever shit he whiffed.
On paper, the ultra is way, way better than it is in practice. You say it’s a low-risk opportunity for Abel to score damage? What about when you realize that virtually every person on the cast can avoid the ultra (or do damage to Abel) on reaction, for free? There pretty much IS no mixup to be had. This is no 3rd Strike Denjin-like thing, where you can hold it in front of someone and hope they guess wrong. There simply IS no guessing wrong to be had in almost every situation where you just randomly throw it out. Each character will do their set Breathless-avoiding move and that’s it. When you realize this, it doesn’t matter that the ultra is delayable, cancelable, armored, etc.
What it IS good for is punishing certain things (Honda headbutts, eg), as an anti-air in some cases, and avoiding pressure on wakeup; in some matchups, you can get away kinda sorta scot free, or make people a little less likely to pressure you. On the rare occasion, you may be able to trap a meterless Gief or Rog in a weird situation where they panic and do something goofy, but if you mess it up, you lose your whole ultra bar and will probably take some damage. Certainly in the long run, I think it’s a losing proposition for Abel.
Keep in mind that to get any of these “benefits”, you have to sacrifice Abel’s terrific U1, which is comboable for huge damage, punishes multi-hitting fireballs, and turns any Abel combo into a 500 damage pain ride with two bars. And you can argue has more applications in mixups than Breathless because of ambiguous roll stuff which leads to U1 (often with no meter).
You can say I’m underestimating or understating the power of Breathless, but I’m an Abel main who’s actually tried using the move in matches, and by your own admission you’ve had very little experience with the move. And you play Vega, a character with a free out for no meter anywhere on the screen. With all due respect, I think you need to listen to what we’re saying here.
I don’t really want to get super involved in this thread, since I don’t even play Abel anymore, but anyone who’s saying U2 is overpowered is way off. It’s barely even good. It only has 1 legitimate use, and that’s to punish moves with significant recovery. The only matchup you need this Ultra for is Honda, since it enables you to punish headbutts, but honestly, Headbutts were already punishable by U1…you just had to bait them with a jump/roll instead of blocking them. Don’t get me wrong, I would still use U2 all day in that matchup, but U1 still works fine in against Honda, as it did in Vanilla.
I’m really surprised you guys went on and on for so long about how U2 is good anti air. The point is 100% irrelevant to begin with. As Deviljin said, there aren’t really any characters that need to jump on Abel to begin with, since most beat him on the ground. But that’s besides the point as well. You know what else is a good anti air? c.HP -> U1. Period, end of point. Doesn’t matter if U2 works as anti air, c.HP is a great anti air, that will yield you Ultra in the exact same situation.
So once you’ve realized the AA argument is pretty moot, what advantages does U2 have over U1…?
You have to acknowledge the fact that basically every character in the game can escape the Ultra if they were doing nothing on its startup (and if they weren’t, then chances are, a random U1 would have worked just the same as a guess). Most of the cast can simply jump at Abel with an empty jump and then do a throw invincible move as they land (assuming Abel doesn’t run under them as they jump, whiffing). The only characters that could have a problem with that are charge characters, which have other options (Wall jumps, teleports, etc), but if they have a charge while you activate, their charge moves can help them escape as well.
Even if you take a character that doesn’t have an easy set sequence to counter the Ultra, where their only option is to try to guess your release timing and jump it…it’s still a guess because they can guess your release timing and jump it.
Straight up, it’s nothing but a guess. Sure you can throw it out for relatively low risk with great reward, but it’s a guess, and guessing isn’t what wins you tournaments. There’s no consistency there. I’d take my c.HP to U1 all day every day over U2, except for some specific matchups where its ability to punish certain moves on block (that U1 could not) shut down key options for the opponent.
Breathless=worthless at high level play…
Since I posted here before and I see that this thread is still somewhat current I will change my statement. I dont feel the move is cheap anymore after using ABEL personally. However I will say the move itself is very quick but can be escaped that is if you recognize your exit in time.
Not meaning to be called noob in the Abel forums since I am just getting to the know the character but why isnt U2 valued in high level play? Understandable Souless looks more cool especially when juggled but I would think those good at footsies would take advantage of Breathless since it covers a fair amount of ground in a good amount of time or is it that high levels already got this timing down for this move?
Looks more cool? 
Youre focusin on the wrong stuff man.
Maybe because it has a lot of confirmed setups and despite some people bitchin about scaled damage and all, it still does a lot of damage and it also depends on when you use the ultra, if you watch top players play, sometimes they dont go for the U1 when they know it wont kill their opponent (plus giving them meter)
I wouldn’t say Breathless isn’t valued at high level play. People are still getting their arms around the right way to use the move. It will play a role at high level.
Well fair enough. Noticed Breathless got stopped by a srk, thwarted by an ex tatsu (i went underneath him) and if i remember correctly, broken Abels w/e kick. This move aint as good as I thought, but positioning and timing are very important in not just execution but escaping as well.
In a sense I would compare it to wheel kick. It’s a threat that can seal a match, but is best used to keep the opponent from doing anything too dumb. In tournament play who knows, but against intermediate players it keeps em honest.
Breathless is actually worth more against good opponents than against scrubs.
It takes a good player to know that a particular option is out of play because breathless is present - say divekick mixups from Rufus - and adapt to that. When they adapt, it’s to your benefit.
Not at all, I almost exclusively use U2 vs Cammy to make her back off. Sometimes having the ultra is better than using it. Same reason I like Hondas U2, set up counter hit c.lp to hands all day.
I really like one of his set ups for it that I’m not sure many know of yet:
Opponent in corner.
Down + hard punch to pop them up in the air.
Crouching hard punch or medium kick to reset them.
Input Ultra before they land, hold the charge, the second they land from reset, let it rip.
It’s a really effective way if you are quick. 
Playing anyone with half a braincell will make you realise that THAT “set up” will never, ever, ever work. All your opponent has to do is hold up forward, no guessing required. 100% guaranteed escapable.
haha damn i thought ive replied to that post, they can jump away for free if you tried to catch them landing from the reset (its not the same recovery as landing from a jump i think)…
Some Abel just got me with Breathless while I was doing a cross up, and I landed on it. It IS cheap.