It’s true actions wise Jesse is on the same level as Walt, but I think its endearing that he shows remorse and has freely admitted in the past that hes a bad guy. I think thats where White Shadow is coming from and I agree.
Plus its clear that he’s been manipulated by Walt which earns some sympathy from me, but of course doesn’t absolve him.
Jesse’s crimes stem from the fact that he’s emotionally weak. Walt’s crimes stem from the fact that he’s a monster. Jesse’s no innocent, but by the standards of a fictional universe in which very few people are truly innocent, he’s a relatively good guy who got caught in the orbit of someone who very much is not.
Today is Aaron Paul’s birthday.
Happy birthday.
I really hope dude has immense success after this. Almost as much as I hope Cranston has success. Dude bought a million dollar house and married a model. That just seems like disaster on a TV salary. I hope he has a lot of work lined up, because my misogyny says that woman will drain him of every dollar in a divorce if he isn’t caked up.
Happy birthday, though.
Anyone who’s involved in the business of hard drugs is a piece of shit I have no respect for, this includes Gale unless he was strong armed into it and had no way of communicating to the outside world/cops without Gus knowing. Walt obviously took advantage of Jesse’s desire for a father figure and as I said in my last post the fact that he is capable of feeling remorse and guilt shows he at least has some humanity left unlike Walt. That being said for you to mention that very few people are innocent in the Breaking Bad world (which is true, I mean there’s Walt Jr, Holly and…Karen?) implies you’re somewhat excusing his premeditated murder with a “well everyone else is doing it so its okay for me to do it too” mindset.
Jesse was never a relatively good guy he was a relatively harmless guy with the ability to turn his life around and be good before he met Walt, big difference. If he were to turn himself in and be sincerely apologetic and beg for forgiveness than someday down the line you would have a point.
Drugs are a personal choice. If someone wants them, I don’t see why anyone should care. It’s akin to prohibition.
Breaking Bad’s internal rules seem to be laid out as such: there are those who do bad because they have agency and those who do bad because they don’t have agency. The two groups are somewhat discrete, but not entirely–characters can cross from one to the other, but I don’t think we’ve seen a case yet in which someone in either group has left both groups altogether. And the number of people who started out not in either group is dwindling.
Walt has committed murder because he’s in the former group and Jesse has committed murder because he’s in the latter group–again, going by the show’s own internal consistency, not by the laws of our reality. It’s not an excuse, so much as an observation of the show’s vision of morality.
Netflix finally uploaded last season’s 6 eps. Finished it in two nights. This show is something else; just when I thought it couldn’t get any better after the ‘Los Pollos Hermanos’ story. Can’t wait for the last episodes to be uploaded.
My favorite quote so far w/o a doubt:
Walter: I know all about your operation. See, my partners here tell me that you produce a meth that’s 70% pure, if you’re lucky. What I produce, is 99.1% pure.
Declan: So?
Walter: So, it’s grade-school T-ball versus the New York Yankees. Yours is just some tepid, off-brand, generic cola. What I’m making is Classic Coke.
Declan: Alright. Okay, so, um, if we just waste you – right here, right now, leave you in the desert – then there is no more Coke on the market, right? See how that works? There’s only us.
Walter: Do you really want to live in a world without Coca-Cola?
[Declan laughs.]
[Walter throws a bag of blue meth at Declan’s feet.]
Walter: My partner tells me that your crew switched to a P2P cook because of our success. You dye your meth with food coloring to make it look like mine. You already ape my product at every turn. But now, you have the opportunity to sell it yourself.
Declan: I need you to listen to me. We’re not going to give up this deal to be your errand boys, do you understand? For what? To watch a bunch of junkies get a better high?
Walter: A better high means customers pay more. A higher purity means a greater yield. That’s $130 million of profit that isn’t being pissed away by some sub-standard cook. Now you listen to me. You’ve got the greatest meth cook in Am – no, the two greatest meth cooks in America – right here. And with our skills, you’ll earn more from that 35% than you ever would on your own.
Declan: Yeah, so you say. Just wondering why we’re so lucky. Why cut us in?
Walter: Mike is retiring from our crew. So his share of the partnership is available, if you can handle his end: distribution. And if you give him $5 million of the $15 million that you brought today. Just think of it as a finder’s fee for bringing us together. We have 40 pounds of product ready to ship. Ready to go. Are you ready?
Declan: [Laughs.] Who the hell are you?
Walter: You know. You all know exactly who I am. Say my name.
Declan: Do what? I don’t–I don’t have a damn clue who the hell you are.
Walter: Yeah you do. I’m the cook. I’m the man who killed Gus Fring.
Declan: Bullshit. Cartel got Fring.
Walter: You sure?
[Declan glances at Mike, who shakes his head.]
Walter: That’s right. Now say my name.
Declan: …You’re Heisenberg.
Walter: You’re goddamn right.
Too good!
Murder is a personal choice too. See how easy that was? =P
In all seriousness we could get into a long drawn out debate about personal responsibility, and you would definitely have a point which I would agree with, hell some of my friends do mollies and coke and I don’t have an issue with it unless it ever interfered with other aspects of their lives. However, ultimately hard drugs like meth have a much greater capacity and likelihood to ruin lives than say cigarettes or weed, so for someone to make the conscious choice of distributing such harmful substances for personal gain makes them scum in my eyes. I respect Jay-Z for all his success and ability to make something of himself, that doesn’t mean I excuse his drug dealing past or his celebration of it.
Breaking Bad succeeds as well as it does because it somehow manages to be entertaining at face value while simultaneously shining a harsh light on the malleability of the characters personal convictions and morals. The latter element is at the heart of the show because it’s an exaggeration of real life morality not a complete fabrication of it. Much like science fiction or film noir it dares us to question our own personal value systems and draw a line in the proverbial sand over and over again so it would be contrary to the nature of the show to coldly observe it from an outsider’s perspective. If Breaking Bad has it’s own benchmark for morality it does so only to be held as a mirror to our own, making us reevaluate or reaffirm where we stand.
Da fuck is agency, nigga? [/nigggatude]
:tup:
I stopped watching BB after… Mike.
That really pissed me off for some reason.
Glad I came back though, I have no clue what happened between then and episode 9 but it I pieces most of it together ready.
Fucking Walter, man, that confession was amazing.
There was only 1 episode between that and the new EPs…
wait hold up so next week is the last ep or… ??
Season 5 is 16 episodes. 8 last year, 8 this year. So after next week, we’re halfway through this last batch.
please tell me your kidding, no one can be this dumb
Why would he be kidding.
The fact is, they are a personal choice, and its a choice that doesn’t concern you or nobody provided they don’t do stupid shit like driving while under the influence.
Doing meth is no different than doing alcohol. One is only frowned on because society has led you to believe that alcohol is OK.
I really don’t want Walt to die. Dude is a total boss who does things out of necessity
And I was talking to my friend the other day about Walt, and he said Walt should have quit when they offered him the 5 million.
Why would he quit???
The cancer treatment cost him near a million dollars, he had already been through so much crap, why stop now?? It’s not even about being greedy. If he had been through all this trouble to get the methylamine, went through all the trouble dealing with Gus and Hank, why stop there. It would make no sense to repeat what he did in the past, and he is right.
there is a reason why he mentioned his past venture in graduate school. He worked hard, went through a lot of crap, suffered a lot, and in the end had nothing to show for it. It wasn’t’ about empire building, but it was about finishing what you start, especially after all the difficulties and close calls he had to deal with. Why stop with all that sacrifice and hard work already being done. Makes no damn sense, all that work so that someone else would benefit from it for doing nothing. He just talked about empire building and money to facilitate the point for Jesse.
I think at this point, if you honestly have empathy for Walt and can rationalize what he’s done, you need to probably take a long look at yourself in the mirror and realize somewhere, somehow, your sense of right and wrong got fucked up along the way.
Jesse is a little more on the morally gray side, at least, you guys covered it well at least. He has done terrible actions but it’s his regret for them that keeps him grounded. He deserves to be punished as much as Walt, but at least he realizes that. Walt used to realize that as well – back when he was passing out in the desert and having one of his moments of clarity with Jesse, he said he deserved to be punished – but somewhere along the line he sold part of his soul to the greed that had been brewing since he lost his chance with Gray Matter. Now it’s that greed that drives him and his actions, his ego that was stuffed in a box for all those years, forcing a genius chemist that could have changed the world into teaching Chemistry classes in high school in order to make ends meet for their crippled child. Now he has changed the world – only for the worse.
The only solace he can take is that he was the best at something, and use the money he’s made to help fill the void that had been left since his love triangle fell apart and he realized that he would never reach his full potential.
And now he’s able to rationalize killing kids as “Collateral Damage.”
No, sorry, there’s no redemption for Walt. And there’s no rooting for him. He’s not the hero, he’s not even the anti-hero. He’s a straight villain whose only redeeming quality is his sense of family.
The only hero in the whole story is Hank.
Hank barged into Jesse’s house and beat the shit out of him. News of cops doing similar shit are on SRK every other day and they’re all called out for being corrupt, but because it’s a TV character we’re invested in we should forget all that and call him a hero? Fuck no. He definitely has a lot more good than bad in him and he’s as close to a hero as we’re likely to get in the BB universe, hell I respect the fuck out of his dogged pursuit of justice, but he’s far from what I would call a hero.
The only conventionally “good” main character is Walt Jr, and it’s for that reason that I suspect maybe he’ll end up killing Jesse and/or Walt. Which reminds me, I will feel betrayed if BB’s ending isn’t David Fincher tier depressing