First of all, it is perfectly fine and dandy to play Brawl online casually, but this discussion has nothing to do with this.
I’ve noticed a lot of times, users here on the SRK’s Brawl board will post as if playing some matches online will “prove” something or that it is “worth” something (other than fun). I’m talking about those discussions where so and so situation or so and so matchups are discussed and argued, sometimes by playing Brawl online, or showing evidence via online Brawl matches.
This happens much too often, and most of the time I want to reply in whatever thread this happens, so I decided to create this thread, albeit I may be a bit late since the board has slowed down, so “better late than never”.
This situation is baffling, honestly. I thought any input delay above what GGPO offers (eg Brawl’s) would suffer SRK’s wrath or at least be acknowledged as “bad, but fun to fuck around” and that would be that, but it doesn’t seem to be the case with Brawl. Why? Not sure, might be the “lol kiddie” syndrome I’ve heard about.
So…discuss.
And before anybody says “GO GET A BETTER CONNECTION” or some similar remark, I’m just going to add that I’ve played guys that live roughly 10km away and it had second or so long input lag. And I’m sure that both of our internet connections are not bad.
Edit: Also I’d like to add that “no comp whaa” is not a justification.
Online play will never be taken seriously as real-life tournament play. Why? Because there will always be a delay in the timing between a player’s command input and the character’s reaction. Laggy or not, online play is busted due to the wii’s crappy wi-fi service (but who came blame them, it came free).
Sometimes you can find things out about character matchups even if you play in abit of lag. I’m not sure specifically what you are talking about, but I imagine some people are coming off as people who only play online. I doubt that’s the case.
Online play is flawed to some degree but it still teaches you good anticipation and reaction, as well as learning character matchups. It’s definitely not worthless at all. I still prefer offline, but I’ve developed a great deal of my skill from playing games online, so I definitely won’t bash them. When I play offline, I just do better because I’m thinking further ahead than offline only people. Besides, it’s nice to have comp available at any time. Even if it is laggy comp. Green dots are like offline games to me though.
I feel honored I could cause you to start a thread.
I’ve had my good matches that pretty much functioned just like offline matches and I’ve had my bad matches where input is laggy as all hell. It’s about 50/50. It’s not perfect, it’s not what I’d REALLY like and yes, I’d say it is first priority to improve in a sequel or expansion, most def. But it’s far from worthless.
As stated above, character match-ups, reaction and anticipation and competition. The online still offers you these and if you can get a good connection, it offers them no worse than an offline match does. Of course, that isn’t exactly reliable to get to happen consistently, but.
And as far as I have seen, players on this board do take laggy online matches with a grain of salt.
agree with Samurai. What I don’t agree with are these statements that seem to throw online play completely down the drain… as if playing online Smash is akin to Solitaire or something. I learned all of my skill online, online is NOT worthless
Once in a while the lag will be game breaking and unplayable, more often though it will just lag a little bit yet enough to fuck you up royally when it counts, but on the flipside sometimes the lag isn’t noticeable and plays almost as well as it would offline. More often then not my connection with most people is manageable and at least half of my online matches wouldn’t turn out much differently if they were offline. However I do feel a lot of the matches I lost online were due to input lag messing my timing up more then the opponent just flat out playing better then me.
Noticeably laggy matches notwithstanding online games can help you become a better player overall just as well as any offline match so don’t go crying about how your ganon would’ve beaten that marth if it weren’t for the input delay:rofl:
Yeah lag has cost me quite a few games were I didn’t feel outplayed, more like just outlagged. The worst thing ever is constantly trying to swing for someone and KNOWING you would have hit them offline, but the input lag gives the person enough time to spot dodge / roll out of the way and have you sitting there open. Doding is also wayyyyyyy harder to punish in lag, as are certain moves (ie snake f.tilt).
My only big complaint is in the really input laggy matches, when I’m trying to press B for tornado to manage the height and I get hit out of it, half the time I get hit and recover and my B press for the tornado turns into a side B and suddenly I’m shooting off the edge to my death. That’s happened to me I don’t know how many times now.
But, I can live with it. It just makes you play that much better.
Yeah but what’s even more annoying then that is when my opponent can shield punish me but when I shield punish my opponent the input delay makes it so they can punish my attempt to shield punish them even when I perfect shield:rofl:
When that happens it really feels like an uphill battle but oh well that’s the nature of online play I just gotta deal with it.
It could be much better, it could be much worse. I’m not trying to justify how bad it is, as it’s really unacceptable, but it’s all we have, so might as well make an omelet since the eggs are broken.
Playing as Peach, opponent as Snake. Opponent gets hit off edge of FD, does up+B recovery close to edge. I run up to the edge to grab him out of it, only to have the game register me as running off the edge and throwing out a neutral-air. I quickly up+B, but the game doesn’t register it in time and I barely miss the ledge. So the game turned what should have been a win for me (gimping Snake) into a very frustrating loss.
Also, you react less to what they do and just kinda do your own thing most of the match. Characters like Meta and Snake become even better 'cause they can just throw things out. Ike becomes better because his moves stay out for longer and do a lot of damage, so he can just throw things out and opponents have trouble punishing what should be punished. I have a hard time playing characters like Zero Suit because she requires a bit more in the precise spacing department.
to avoid that, I just refrain from attacking when I’m being pressured near ledge (doesn’t work as well with Ike though). That kinda stuff can also happen in real time too if you’re not careful. If you can stay focused on what you have to do next, it’s not that big a deal
what I think is that it’s not good as offline. that’s it
Of coures offline will be better than online because of the input delay and lag. Of course it is frustrating when you commit suicide in a close match because of it (wizard’s kick when off the ledge despite inputting the commands while you were still on the stage). However, as many people have already stated, online matches are far from worthless. Online gives you the chance to experience different styles of play and tactics from your very own home. Some people like myself do not live in a big city where Smash tournaments are held. The experiences from my online matches have helped to be a better player. Yes, lag sucks. However, remember that your opponent is also suffering from the same lag and input delay as you are.
I agree, but at the same time you really can’t deny that certain characters are better (or at least harder to deal with) in lag. When you are a melee character trying your hardest to get close to a projectile user, perfect shielding and other methods that require fast reactions are key. Input delay does hurt pretty badly in those types of matches.
In the end though if you lose you lose. No biggie since no money is on the line anyway.
Can I get some examples? I hear this alot and am not really buying it. I hear Ike becomes top tier…I used to lose to Ike because I couldn’t become used to autocancels into jab combo. I’d run right into it. And his smashes really don’t care if you’re sheilding or not. None of this is lag related anyway.
