You make no sense at all. You keep saying how Capcom can’t do any better, yet correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t they have a license to use GGPO?? Why aren’t they using it then if you’re so sure it’s viable? (both financially and technically)
The bottom line is, you don’t have a clue why, and neither does anyone on this forum. I know you think Capcom are stupid and you are some sort of super genius so why don’t you give them a call and tell them what they’re doing wrong?
hey how about leaving my thread
Love the fact he ignored me. which gave a suggestion on how to hide the input lag.
except i program a fighting game engine for 8 hours a day. you are wrong.
Mike Z who is working on skullgirls knows that you are wrong.
Ponder who wrote GGPO knows that you are wrong.
Namco put fucking GGPO into a naruto game or whatever it was, they know you are wrong too.
“financially viable”, do you know what that means? it means “we don’t think it will let us sell any extra copies” vs what they already have written and what they can already copy and paste around. GGPO, while they have the license would require them to put in a little more time and money and basically they think it won’t let them sell more copies.
also don’t come in a thread acting big and throwing around words like “financial implications” to try to sound fucking smart because we know you aren’t and no words will hide that shit
The only reason why Capcom refuses to use rollback is becuase it is cheaper. They are more than financially viable for GGPO. Capcom doesn’t have enough money to do it but the team at skull girls does? That right THERE makes no sense, and before you cry “3d is totally different, WAAHHHHH” Do some research on how skull girls graphics are made, then come back here. Seth even said that THEY CAN DO IT, THEY ARE JUST TOO FUCKING LAZY TO DO SO.
They obviously don’t want to spend a dime more on a netcode then they have to, becuase of the fucking Capcom drones.
The fact of the matter is that drones with their pointless feedback, and constant dick sucking to Capcom has not given Capcom ANY reason to spend the extra cash. You sitting here continuing to defend them is not doing anything but hurting our chances.
Why are we acting like Namco is some kind of hero for putting it in as many games as Capcom has? When Tekken Tag has GGPO, then we can use them as an example for what Capcom can do. At the moment both Namco and Capcom have bad netcodes in their major games.
LOL, I’m not the one saying its possible to use GGPO in the SF4 engine, that is ALL ponder who happens to be a programmer. Other people who also program video games on shoryuken also believe Capcom is wrong.
You’re talking about people who’ve gone to college and received a degree in this shit. I didn’t make this argument up out of thin air, there are actual technical people here on SRK whom said Capcom won’t do it
it doesn’t make sense to you because you’re new here or retarded.
yea I know why capcom won’t implement it. Its because they keep cutting and pasting the cvs2 net code from 10 years ago since it works well in Japan. Online Capcom games 10 years ago play exactly the same as they do now and implementing a newer net code means more work.
If you don’t know how Capcom works, they love to cut and paste shit. Ever since super turbo in 93-94, they use the ST engine to create most of the games right after. Dark stalkers 1-2, vampire savior 1-2, COTA, xvsf, mvc1\mvc2, cvs2, cyber bots. Every single one of these games is just the super turbo engine with little tweaks to it with newer graphics. They LOVE to recycle and knowing this, its pretty easy to see that they recycle the net code too. Thats why sf4 vc\mvc3 all play identical online, they didn’t create 3 separate net codes, its the same one being applied to different games.
also, financially my ass! you’re telling me that skullgirls crew makes more money than the Capcom crew? bullshit. Its just that 1 company is willing to try and the other knows it can get away with recycled garbage.
If you replace Capcom with “the video game industry” you’d be right. Everyone does that and with good reason. Games can’t afford to be built from the ground up every time. Dark stalkers 1-2, vampire savior 1-2, COTA, xvsf, mvc1\mvc2, cvs2, cyber bots.
Small development teams have a large amount of freedom. Skullgirls has seen so many different versions come and go that if it were part of an existing company, it would have likely made that company go broke somewhere along the line. Small companies can do things and take risk that large companies can only dream of. Braid would have never been released if it hadn’t been as independent as it was. The same could be said of nearly every major indie hit from Minecraft to Cave Story.
Braid had a huge ass budget.
You really should stop posting if you’re going to keep dropping lines like this.
Let’s look at Naruto as an experiment from Namco in this area. The code proved to be technologically stable, so I would expect it to be in future major titles.
Let’s also look at the fact that Tekken 6 shipped with SNKP level netcode. After hearing complaints, Namco patched it with better netcode. Not great netcode, but certainly better than the original. So that shows their willingness to change their netplay practices, and to later ship Naruto with GGPO proves they are committing to this endeavor.
To have put GGPO into Tekken 6 after launch would’ve most likely required a complete and total rewrite in the netcode section of the port. If Tekken 6’s port was written in the was Vanilla SF4’s was, making that kind of patch might have been as impossible as making SSF4 DLC was for Capcom. (Which, considering after saying they wrote SSF4 in a way to support major patches such as new characters, character tweaks, and adding in non-disc DLC, and AE coming out as DLC, I tend to believe this one.) The best they could’ve done is what they already have done with Tekken 6, and I would anticipate TTT2, TxSF, and SC5 (If the latter ever happens) to ship with GGPO.
Prove me right Namco.
But regardless, let’s look at this fact. Namco has released GGPO in one fighting game, and has patched another that had bad netcode to alleviate the problem. Capcom has shipped zero GGPO netcode-based fighters, and patched zero titles that have been shown to have bad netcode. They just add new features, thinking that will salve the wounds of playing under poor conditions.
So Namco is further up in this area than you’d care to admit.
Well according to Capcom, one of the reasons SF4 lacks good netcode is because they claim they would have had to have planned for such a netcode to be implemented from the start and that they couldn’t simply jury rig it in as the game stood. Presumably that could apply to any other one of Capcom’s poor netcoded contemporaries.
The really interesting thing will be to see how Capcom expands upon that excuse so that they can cover for SFxT having inferior netcode too.
Also interested in hearing more on this “more money is less money” concept.
The thing that I have posted but has been ignored by “Yours truly” is that why have they not been able to implement the netcode in the first place?
They don’t see a reason becuase “Yours Truly” and many others tell Capcom not to waste some extra cash on producing a good netcode.
SFIV/ kind of excused becuase they have a new engine on new ground.
SSFIV-wtf
MvC3-wtf
TvC UaS-wtf
SFxT-??
But if this game has shit online, then I am officially done with supporting Capcom’s games. I mean I love Capcom, but they would be treating us like sheep if they didn’t at least TRY with this game. Capcom better pull out their trump card with this one, becuase Capcom has been pissing me off with each and every word to leave their mouths since 2009. It’s time to end this shit now.
TvC could have had great netcode but still would have had bad netplay due to being on the Wii. Even Nintendo isn’t willing to bother with their own online system, as they stated for NSMBW and DKCR
Mario Kart Wii…
This isn’t entirely accurate. While it isn’t GGPO, SSF2THD Remix and MvC2 (XBLA, PSN) shipped with netcode that use the same rollback technique that GGPO uses. In fact, Ponder was consulted in it’s creation and it had some bit of a thumbs up from him. GGPO isn’t, or at least wasn’t then, a console game proven SDK and there are a lot of developers that would rather develop tech in house that they own instead of licensing it so they can use it in their other titles going forward without having to license it all the time. It should be noted that rollback in online games as a technique in online game isn’t totally new and original. It’s been used here and there in games as far back as the late 90’s.
Those were done by Backbone not Capcom.
Precisely. Capcom’s XBLA/PSN ports (save Final Fight I think) were outsourced to Backbone. All tweaks, porting, menus, and netcode was done by Backbone, not Capcom, which means Capcom had no input into the netcode in these instances.
And to say that developers like to develop everything in house is wrong. That doesn’t at all explain why MVC3 is using an engine developed by MTFramework. Or the fact that part (or all) of SC4 and SF4’s engines were built by Criware.
So there is a fundamental flaw in that argument. If developers like to develop in house, why are their engines licenses of existing engines made by other companies? So then, why should they have to develop their netcode in house if they are already outsourcing the core of the game itself?
Answer: Laziness. They have existing netcode that’s “proven to work” because it “works in Japan/Korea/Taiwan,” so instead of tacking on to cost of development/lead time to implement outsourced netcode, they stick to what “works,” and copy-pastas it into everything they can, and then makes other excuses when cornered with the fact that online is bad, and has been since the beginning of last decade.
I really do. I think we should petition for a partial refund because of bad netcode, which was billed by Capcom (as per the back of my copy of vanilla SF4) as “Worldwide online matches,” thus by definition, able to be played across the world. If they won’t listen to our words, and I know that a boycott will not work because people will still buy, and if FG sales drop, they will just stop making fighters again, then they should listen when we threaten to cut into their bottom line on products shipped with piss-poor online performance.
And like I stated earlier, not even Asia is immune to the bad netcode in MVC3, as I’ve heard reports of Koreans not even being able to play each other without bad lag. That’s a country the size of Indiana, with better broadband performance than America could even dream about, still having the same issues Americans are facing playing Marvel online. So I’m pretty sure an international online petition for a refund for shipping bad netcode would get the attention needed to wake Capcom up to using GGPO.
Mario Kart Wii, Conduit, Goldeneye, MWremix, etc…
Actually Capcom is the one that approached Backbone to use rollback in their code. To say that Capcom has “no input” into the netcode (or every facet of development) for a title they’ve commissioned a developer to create is stupid. It’s like hiring a contractor to make you a house, but you get no say in how it looks.
HD Remix and MvC2 are just as valid Capcom titles as SF4 and MvC3 are. They are all outsourced games.
I don’t know why you’re being so absolute, but yes, in an ideal world, a lot of developers would rather do all their tech in house and own outright all of the aspects of their game without having to pay license fees. It’s time/money/talent that determines if they pick up pre-existing middleware. Seems like you don’t know about Criware also, it’s audio/video middleware. Doesn’t have much to do with “engines” in the sweeping generalized way you’re using that term.
As I said before, it’s a time/money/talent issue. If it makes financial sense for a developer to create their own tech, they usually will. If they don’t have the time/money/talent, you license it. Anything from an engine, audio solution, video player, etc.