Boxer AE 2013 Wishlist + Brainstorming

So as I’m sure a lot of you know, Ono has made recent tweets teasing at the possibility of SSF4 AE 2013. A lot of people think it will happen eventually so I decided to make this thread to see what changes you would like to see for Boxer (Mike Bison/Balrog). I’m going to post the changes I would like to see but please keep in mind that these are just MY opinions and some of them may seem greedy or unreasonable but I’ll try my best to explain why I think those changes would make Balrog more fun and overall more effective character. I’ll list them in a numbered format so that it will be easier for you guys to tell me if that particular change would be good, fun, terrible, useless, too good, too cheap, whatever.
So overall, I feel Balrog is a very solid character but in high level he gets lamed out and ran from way too much and he has a hard time opening people up that just block all day. I personally don’t feel damage is his problem at all because he does great damage with pokes and combos but I do feel like his pressure and mixup should be buffed at the expense of damage nerfs. Basically, I want SF4 Balrog to be more like Super Turbo without so damage. Don’t worry I’ll throw in some nerfs too to make it “fair” :slight_smile:

  1. Improve the recovery on LK rush upper so that cr. strong xx whiff rush upper is +2 on hit and -1 on block and make it so that you can perform the move by charging down back (or back) to down-forward so that he can maintain down-charge like in ST (this can be done by making it hit so that you have to hold the kick button down to get ground smash similar to how you have hold the punch to get overhead) . This would allow for the classic ST mixup of throw, safe headbutt, or do nothing after whiff rush upper.

  2. Improve the anti air hitbox and/or startup for all versions of rush upper. The move currently loses too often to most neutral jumps and backjumps and is too slow to activate which is why it gets counter hit before it even has a chance to anti air as it was designed to. This can come at the expense of a damage nerf. 80 damage for LK rush upper, 90 for MK rush upper, and 100 for HK rush upper. Basically improved utility at the expense of about 20% less damage.

  3. Change the properties of dash swing blow (overhead) so that the LP version has 17 frame startup but only does 65 damage and pushes them so far that he can’t combo from it at all. It can stay -5 but the pushback will make it safe from reversal DP’s. Make MP version 20 frame startup, but is only +5 on hit instead of +10, -4 on block and does 80 damage. The HP version can retain the 23 frame startup it currently has and it can still be +10 on hit but it should be safe at -2 on block with the damage lowered to 80. All versions can do 150 stun. EX version can stay exactly the same. Again this change is following the trend of improved utility at the expense of damage. The problem with overhead is not damage, its that it’s too slow and very risky if blocked.

  4. Improve the startup and recovery on all versions of Dashing Low rush to be more like Super Turbo. Currently the move is very slow and the LP version is -8 on block. They should make the LP version startup faster and only be -3 on block with damage lowered to 70 but the stun increased to 130. MP version startup faster and be -5 on block with the same current damage but 170 stun and HP version can also have faster startup, -7 on block with same current damage/stun. EX version can stay the same These changes follow the trend I would like to see of improved utility at the expense of damage.

  5. Change properties of super so that depending on the strength of button you press it has different properties. Light version (LP or LK) version can have 5 frame startup but only do 200 damage. Medium (MP or MK) version can have 7 frame startup, do 270 damage but be only -4 on block (similar to Super Turbo where his super was mostly safe). Heavy (HP or HK) can be exactly the same at is now.

  6. Change properties of headbutt so that only the LP version has the recovery from vanilla SF4 back so that he can navigate through projectiles while maintaining charge. Change MP headbutt so that it always hit crouchers, is full body invincible and -4 on block with enough pushback to make it safe from reversal DP’s but if it whiffs it can have even worse recovery than it currently has. Also since the MP version buff on block would be so good, nerf it so that on hit it, it won’t knock them into the air as high as the HP version and you can only juggle into the Light version of the super I mentioned above (which means he would need full meter and it would only do 320 total damage). This change would make him more like ST rog where he can use a safe headbutt for chip and pressure. HP and EX versions can stay exactly the same as they are now.

  7. Extend the hitbox on just the last launching uppercut for Ultra 1 so that it always connects. I’ve seen it happen too many times where a dash ultra’s last hit just whiffs completely and the Balrog player loses becauses of it. Since this would be a nice buff, make it impossible to combo into super after connecting with the grounded Ultra 1. Please fix this Capcom.

  8. Change the properties of TAP so that it is more like ST. Change the startup to 27 frames instead of 30 frames. Lower the damage from starting at 130 to starting at 110 but make it so that it will always be -2 no matter how long you charge it. TAP is completely useless at anything beyond level 1 charge. Make it so that the charge levels go up faster but the damage increments go up less. So level 2 TAP will be reached faster than it currently is but it will only do 120 damage on hit instead of 150. Final TAP will take 35 game seconds to reach but it will do 375 damage instead of 560 and be -2 on block. I feel this change will make the different levels of TAP actually usable and Final TAP can actually be used as a comeback instead of just Poongko trolling online randoms with it :slight_smile: The improved startup will allow Balrog to rushdown a lot more as well. As you’ve noticed, improved utility at the expense of damage.

  9. Ultra 2… oh ultra 2. Here’s what I think… it should do 850 stun at max ultra (around 570 stun at half charge), the animation after it should be completely removed becuase it looks terrible and the opponent should lay on the ground longer so that he can apply pressure (knockdown mixup a.k.a okizeme). It should only do 130 damage regardless of how much charge it has but it should have zero frame startup so that you can’t jump out of it. 130 damage doesn’t seem like much but the threat of it being inescapable and potentially stunning more often than not will add so much mixup possibility on offense that it will certainly be a stronger ultra overall than it is now.
    ** Another idea for Ultra 2 is to keep the 700 stun at max, lower the damage back to 299 at max but make it 10+0 startup and the ultra freeze won’t start until the 10th frame. So basically it will have 10 frame startup but once it activates, if you didn’t jump before the ultra freeze, it will grab you. The biggest problem with how it is currently is that the ultra freeze acts as a queue to jump out of it so it makes it very hard to land.

  10. Bring back his old ST win animation where he rips off his shirt but it will only happen if he kills you in less than 25 game seconds :smiley:

  11. Make LP dash straight 0 on hit because it currently is -2 even on hit and he can’t continue pressure once it connects. Make it -2 on block.

Note that this wishlist is just my own personal ideas to spice up this bland character that we’ve been using for the past 4 years. A lot of the stuff may be too good and some of it may not be that good (even though I personally think these would be totally fair and overall more FUN)

you put too much faith in capcom javits. Any of these changes would make Rog more interesting.

Victory in 25 seconds or less in SF4. A pipedream. Otherwise, I’m ok with these changes.

Great list javits! Looking forward to the changes!

Ps. DS Is my hero!

My opinions to your proposed changes:
[]I like this change, there’s almost room for abuse, but being -1 on block may be too good, in the sense it’d be unpunishable. I could see ALOT of characters having no tools to deal with that mixup, characters with no sub 4f reversals would get eaten alive by the mixup. -2 would be more balanced ensuring that Balrog’s 3f jab or 3f throw wouldn’t beat out any of their possible reversals on block.
]I think rush upper being used for an AA is a bit difficult. as far as special AA’s go, i think headbutt should be the go to for this. Damage nerfs would balance out the changes, but given the utility of his cr.hp st/ and headbutt, adding an additional Anti-air that’s viable may give too much redundancy in his movset (i’ll revisit this in your modifications to headbutt). It might make due to just to improve the hitbox since it’s startup is going to be hella long in any situation where it could be used as an AA (imo). None of that stands for though (which has a steeper scale for the variable startup).
[]I pretty much agree with you on this one, but since lp.oh has the change to make it safe on block how is it on hit? I’d say it should at least be even or -2 with the pushback. Even if we don’t get anything off of it, we definitely don’t want to be punished crazy hard by the characters who can still punish it.
]I agree on the utility of this move, i think overhead and dash low should be similar in the fact that the opponent has a reason to guess high/low when he dash punches. Dash low generally has a lot of pushback, but only at certain ranges, they can keep the frame data as is, but make the pushback constant. If you do lp.dash low at max distance, you get a similar effect to doing ex.dash low up close. I feel they should also extend the untechable knockdown time to this move a little bit more for oki, you have to eyeball a frame or two to actually get a meaty/safe jump, nothing long like a throw, but a knockdown time comprable to sweep.
[]No opinion on this change, aside from whether or not the proposed changes would include changes to how it combo’d on certain characters in the corner (possibly changing the damage distribution).
]I think lp.hb should be able to blow up low profiles, we shouldn’t be able to get anything off of lp.hb unless it was an AA/trade lp.hb and the damage will be dismal, but having that option would definitely give us a sure way to blow up frame traps without using armor. Similar to how viper can over and over again. I remember there being more examples, but i can’t think of any more atm.
]yes, i feel this should be true for the lower TAPs (1-3) the higher TAPs should remain as they are since you can make them -2 if you FADC them. If you don’t have the ability to use three of your buttons for 40s, you should definitely get a reward for them.
[]U2 should stay as is with more range. I’d say the same range as Guy’s U2. Balrog would definitely be the first target for nerf action if his U2 was 1+0 even with the same range. Tick throws would be something else and he could jump-in for free. It’d would make him top tier really fast. And along with the xx buff, this would be an incredible tactic. Something like an combo into delayed (they crouch-block) cancel into <wait> U2. Instant stun/reset. It’d be way too good IMO, but would definitely shift his play style to what you’re going for later in the match.
]Lol, they should replace his winning U2 animation with that, sucker punch, win’s the match, rips his shirt off.
[*]I agree lp.ds should be safe on block, i kinda fear both that and mp.hb being a change as it’d make him similar to Bison but with a shit-ton more options on the ground, but it being punishable on block at most ranges is a pain (Cody/Zangief)
I’ll keep thinking and post if something comes to mind.

3nigmat1c thanks a lot for the feedback! some of the changes I got a little greedy on but you definitely got the point of my post. There isn’t much variety in the utility of a lot of Balrog’s moves so it makes limiting him to nothing very simple in high level. For example, I really like that for E.Honda they changed all of his sumo headbutts to have a different purpose (LP sumo headbutt is for anti air and safe chip, MP headbutt is invincible to projectiles on startup and has lower body invincibility, and HP sumo headbutt is for most damage, range and speed, with EX sumo headbutt having a combination of all 3 versions -anti air, damage, range, speed-).

[#2] The situation where rush upper as an AA would be useful is when you’re walking back and they’re chasing you down and jumping toward you in case you rush punch. Right now the move is not fast enough to active in time to actually anti-air that particular jump attempt and even if it does come out it loses to the jump in anyway because it doesn’t have a good hitbox (actually what can be done instead of buffing the hitbox is to lower the hurtbox on his arm so that it wont trade or lose as frequently as it does). He already does have a lot of great anti air options so I can see how adding another one can be too good but it just bothers me when a particular special move is not useful for how it was intended and designed to be used. The move whiffs crouchers for a reason because it’s an anti air. It’s not like it does more damage than his dash straight or something.

[#1] You made a good point about -1 on block being too good. Originally I was going to suggest -2 on block but I feared that eventually characters would start mashing 3f jabs or reversal SPD once they get used to the mixup. Making it -1 on block was to give Balrog the ability to bait mashed out reversals (such as SPD which has 2f startup) by creating the illusion that he WILL go for the throw after the setup. The +2 on hit is so that he can go for frame traps basically mid-combo so he’d be able to do like cr. MP xx whiff LK upper (+2 on hit), walk up close HP BAM COUNTER HIT reset that damage and stun and get a dizzy faster. It would make him really aggressive.

[#3] LP overhead with the added pushback can be like -2 on hit. That’s fair and that was a great catch since I forget to mention how it would be on hit.

[#4] Great suggestion on giving dash low longer knockdown time for more okizeme! I actually thought about that too but just forgot. Giving the 4 frames better recovery would kinda do that anyway :stuck_out_tongue:

[#5] this can definitely tweaked but the theme of this change was to make the strength of the button you press have a different property for the super. Many characters have this already and it would be more interesting if Balrog had something like that too.

For the ultra 2, I’ve thought about so many ways that this Ultra can be changed and the way you mentioned was actually one of them (leaving it as is but just increasing the range and improving the knockdown for better okizeme). However, as it has been seen with all the non-instant command throw ultras, the chances of actually landing it in a real match are like 20%. The problem with how it currently is that you can just jump out because of the ultra freeze.
Another idea I had for the ultra was to make it have like 8 frame startup but there would be no ultra freeze until it grabs. So basically it would be 8+0 frame startup. The 8 frames is enough startup for someone to react that you might go for it so it wouldn’t be too cheap.

What are some of the changes YOU would like to see? Remember this is just a wishlist and hey if Capcom looks at it for ideas even better but this is just for fun so let me see what you think he could use to make him better, funner, have more utility, cheaper (yes you can ask for cheap stuff too since this is just for fun).

Hi guys, in the official rebalance thread I’m trying to compile a buff list for every character - I think it would be more fun (and maybe helpfull) than everybody making one separatelly.

Right now, what I gave Balrog is:

  • Ju.f. HP: +20 damage (110)
  • Ju.f. HK: +10 damage (110)
  • cr. HP: +20 damage (110)
  • Dash Swing Blow (overhead): reduce the start up with 2 frames
  • Dash Straight: +2 hitstun (0/+1/+1/+4)
  • Dash Low Straight: +10 damage each version (100-110-120-120)

Basically his super damage back and some ideas I found lurking Balrog subforum. But I will read more closely the list you made - if you guys can decide on a couple of buffs that would make Balrog stronger/ more interesting (without being broken/ out of his character archetype), I would gladly incorporate them into the buff list.

For example - if you would had to chose 4 buffs from the list Jav posted, what would they be ? (all of them is a little too much).
My personal oppinion is:
3. dash swing blow: what about my idea - reduce the start up with 2 frames for all versions, but they remain unsafe on block and with the same damage ?
I think it’s a little easier, plus, I don’t like the idea of being safe on block, considering you can link a Super or ultra after an overhead.
4. Dash low: again, I think it’s easier to just reduce the start up with, lets say, 1 frame ?
and keep the damage and the disavantage on block. I don’t like nerfs, so I don’t like the damage reduction, and I don’t like a move to become spamable - so on block it remains unsafe.
8. Tap: I would say reduce the start up with 4 frames (26), keep the invincibility and damage, and make higer version safe/er on hit (still the same on block). Maybe reduce the charging time.
11. Dash straight: what do you say of my idea (well actually I took it from this forum :razzy:) to give it +2 hitstun for all versions ? Yuou should be able to combo after an Ex dash straight - woudl it be a little too much ?

These are all great ideas! The hings I would ask for in highest priority:

-Leave the damage/stun of U2, but increase the range so we can actually use it.
-Decrease headbutt recovery frames back to vanilla :smiley: (I actually really like the suggestions posted by Jav1ts and 3nig)
-Crumple on far standing HP counter hit like in SFXT- Love that shit!
-And of course, give Balrog a fireball!

And I like the idea of being able to combo after EX DS- that would be dope!

Hey Emanuelb, while the things you said you put for Balrog would be nice, for the most part, those are just changes to damage and making dash swing blow faster (the only buff). Adding a bit of damage would definitely be welcomed but the problem here is that Balrog has pretty much remained exactly the same with very little changes to his gameplan since Vanilla. Since this is just a wishlist, I posted so many things just to get people thinking as to what possible changes can be made for the character without them being too broken. Obviously if they made ALL of the change, Balrog would be drastically different but the point of my post was to show that it would be very interesting if they changed Balrog in that way so that he can be used more aggressively and not just so defensively. I feel if there’s going to be a new version of the game there should be some system changes. Like I personally would love it if DP fadc costed 3 meters if done as a reversal or if it it’s done on block. I never liked the “safe guessing” that leads to so much reward in SF4 series especially since most charge characters can’t do it but most DP characters can. Also, you forgot to mention any changes to his Ultra 2 which is obviously still pretty useless even though they buffed the damage.

I’m honestly curious to see what types of changes you guys would like to see for Balrog. Post your own ideas! My ideas were just my ideas to kinda get the brain wheels moving for you all :slight_smile:

But if you would have to choose 4 buffs from your list - what would they be ? what do oyu think Balrog would benefit the most ?
And about EX dash straight being +4 on hit - do you think this would be a little too much ? :D. I thought this would be a nice way to give Balrog new combos, you should waste a meter for it, so…But I would like to hear some oppinions from some proper balrog mainers.

Emanuelb, I honestly can’t narrow it down to only 4 buffs. EX dash straight being +4 would definitely be 2 much since it already hits crouchers he would be able to convert into damage from random guessing with reversals. I would like to see Balrog have more mixup tools not become braindead. Here’s a classic video of Daigo using Balrog versus John Choi’s O.Sagat in Super SF2 Turbo:


In the video Daigo uses a lot of the whiff short upper into throw mixups and even mixes in the headbutt which is pretty safe but still punishable. SF4 Balrog can’t stay on that ass like ST Balrog so I would like to see him get some changes to make him more like ST Rog. Here’s another video of Daigo’s Balrog in ST where he uses more TAP and even charges one of the TAP’s to level 6. He loses the round but the level 6 TAP took about half of Sagat’s life! I’m not saying it should do that much damage in SF4 but if they buffed his higher levels of TAP to be usable we might see some crazy comebacks with a hail mary TAP.


OK, this is what I think based on your proposed buffs:

  • Dash Swing blow (overhead): reduce the start up with 1 frame (21-22-22-22)
  • Dash Low: reduce the start up with 1 frame (12-13-13-13)
  • TAP: - reduce the start up with 5 frames (25)
  • level 2 gets +2 hitstun (+1); level 3 gets +4 hitstun (0)
  • LP Dash straight: +2 hitstun (0)
  • ju f HP: +10 dmg (100)
  • cr HP: +10 dmg (100)

I this would be quite fair.

As I stated earlier, having those things would be nice but honestly it seems like you’re just posting slight tweaks without giving any reasons as to why such minimal changes would be “quite fair”. For example, reducing start on Dash swing blow (overhead) by 1 frame would be nice but 1 frame is certainly not enough. Here’s why: If good players are rarely getting hit by LP dash swing blow which currently has 22 frame start up, making it 1 frame faster isn’t going to be a significant difference to make them start getting hit by it and with what you proposed the MP and HP versions would just have the same startup as the current LP version. I’ll give you examples of other overheads and compare them to Balrog’s so that you can see why my changes are actually reasonable.

-Sakura overhead kick: 16 frame startup, only -3 on block, +2 on hit and can combo on counter hit, has way more range, does 80 damage / 100 stun, NOT A CHARGE MOVE
-Dudley overhead: 15 frame startup, only -1 on block, +4 on hit (can combo), does 80 damage / 100 stun, NOT A CHARGE MOVE

What I proposed for Balrog’s LP dash swing blow was 17 frame startup (slower than BOTH those I just mentioned), -5 on block with pushback (still can be punished with Ryu sweep), only 65 damage (less damage than mentioned above) and cannot combo from it at all. It’s still a charge move… Is that asking for too much?
The same applies for Dashing low, 1 frame faster startup isn’t going to do much for the usefulness of the move if it’s still going to be -8 on block for the LP version.

The faster TAP at 25 frames would be very nice and I would take that even at the expense of a slight damage nerf. You still haven’t mentioned anything that could be done about his Ultra 2 and I’m sure everyone in here will agree that it is not usable enough at the moment.

I’m not trying to bash you by the way, I think it’s great that you are giving feedback since that was the point of this thread but if you’re going to make suggestions please give reasons why so that it validates your arguement. You mentioned earlier that you have your own thread with changes for AE 2013 for all the characters but do you actually use Balrog? Again, I’m not trying to bash you but for example, I know things about Chun-Li but I won’t make a thread about what I think Chun-Li should get in AE 2013 especially if I don’t use her.

Regarding the overhead: Yes, the overhead would still be slow, BUT - it gives you +10 on hit - this is huge - you can link Ultra or Super after it.
Yes, Sakura has a faster overhead - which most of the time leads to nothing. And yes, Dudley has the best overhead in the game - for a character that is bottom tier. It’s really unfair to compare Balrog with Sakura and especially dudley - both these characters base their entire game on mix ups -esp. dudley - this is all he has.
Balrog is not a mix up character, and I think his overhead is not design to become a simple mix up tool - is just a risky, fancy, high risk/ high reward move t ospice Balrog’s game. And Rog’s overhead is also quite difficult to read because the way is activated, people are getting hit by it now, so lowering slightly the start up it should make an impact.
Giving Balrog a 17 frame start overhead that is safe on block is way too much, and it would make Balrog out of his character archetype.

Same for dash low - I don’t think Balrog should become a pure mix up character. He already has above average life, great speed (for his size), 3 fr jab, great AA, great pokes, great defence.
He is a really good character, PR Rog finnished 3rd with him at Evo. I think he needs some buffs, but not a complete overhaul.

Maybe we could lower the start up for dash low/ overhead with 2 frames - but I think people might complain about it - just think this way - if Balrog, who is a solid character, receives such good buffs - then what about characters like Hawk, dudley, gouken, dee jay, dan, etc ?

Regarding U2 - well, I had to chose between buffing dash straight or U2. And since Balrog already has a very good ultra…

No, I don’t play Balrog :). I’m trying to gather input from all players - that’s why I came here - and make a list with buffs for all characters - bar akuma, cammy, rufus, seth and viper.
As you see, I’m open to sugestions, I already changed my previous buffs for rog and incorporated some of your proposals.
I don’t try to bash you either - I think this is a great thread, and you have some very nice ideas, I suport them and I encourage people to give input - but for the purpose of my buff list, I have to be a little more restrained.

Just to give an example - I originally proposed a 3 frame reduction for overhead start up - and other players considered it too much.

EDIT: ok, maybe we can reduce the start up for the overhead with 2 frames (making it 20-21-21-21).

If you look at this interview with PR Rog ( ) about why he’s switching to Fei-Long, one of the first things he mentions is that Balrog’s overhead is not good enough and is too much of a risk at high level. Balrog has no real way to open someone up since he doesn’t have a command throw or crossup. Notice that in my list of buffs (and nerfs) I didn’t list that Balrog should get either of those things but at least he should have a way to get some damage without having to take make so many risks. I honestly feel it’s something you would have to play as Balrog in order to fully understand. Sometimes only being on the receiving end of Balrog’s good tools doesn’t let you see that he has many flaws. All characters are flawed, it’s the nature of Street Fighter but Balrog’s flaws really limit him to the point that he just isn’t on par with the top tier characters. PR Rog got 3rd place with the character but if you read in his interview he barely played any of his bad matchups. Don’t get me wrong he’s a great player but just because he got 3rd doesn’t mean Balrog is what took him there. His insane reactions and playstyle took him to 3rd place and I’m sure he’ll have more success with Fei-Long once he learns the character. Here’s a quote from the interview and this is coming from the best Balrog player on Earth.

Recently on the FGTV stream, you ran some sets with Champ, yet the whole night you were using other characters and constantly saying that Balrog sucks. In your opinion, why is Balrog such a bad character, and what is he missing that the other top-tier characters have?
PR Balrog: That’s true I said Balrog sucks, but that’s just me trolling with the character. Balrog has his strong points and his weak points, but sadly his weak ones are what makes a character good. Let me explain, every top-tier character right now is a vortex character or has a way to break the opponent’s defense. Balrog has none of these and he can only throw or frame trap, he has no cross up or command throw so when he doesn’t have the lead, he will lose majority of the time.
What needs to be done to make Balrog a better competitive character?
PR Balrog: I think to make Balrog better they should either give him a command throw or make his overhead safe on block. The fact that Balrog has to take a big risk to win isn’t good for a tournament character.

I honestly think PR is just salty, same for Justin, in the aftermath of SF 25th Finals.
Balrog is not bad at all, he is really good. And he definetelly doesn’t need a command grab or overhead safe on block :razzy:.

I think reducing the overhead start up with 2 frames will make it really good, without being broken or changing the character.

In addition to reducing the startup I think it would make sense to remove the extremely distinctive sound Rog makes when activating the overhead. I think that sound cue is a big part of why people can block the overhead so consistently.

This change means we can use this in regular combos FYI. it’s the 1 extra frame on startup that makes lk.smash and lp.dash low not easy to combo into.

and @ Emanuelb. It’s definitely something you realize with Balrog after playing him for a long time and going from playing low tier players, to mid-tier, to high-tier PLAYERS. If you can block and tech throws, Balrog can’t open you up, PERIOD. There is NOTHING balrog can do to make you afraid to press a button, absolutely nothing. He has no cross-up, meaning no soft/hard/unblockables. At a high level, being a solid character doesn’t win you matches, it means you win if you get the life lead. I mean look at Dictator, he’s in a similar boat. at a high level, he’s fucking solid, because he has loop-able offense, Balrog has none, staggered jab gets you nothing at a high level.

Alot of the changes mentioned will make Balrog seemed OP’d at low - mid level, but at high level he’ll be more viable. Like when I was talking about matchups, my point of view was not tournament, high-level player point of view, but more online, mid-tier to high-tier. Some of it biased because that’s my “Experience”, but at a high level, Balrog doesn’t win for a lot of the reasons Jav1ts mentioned.

If anything I’d say give Balrog an actual crossup. AFAIK he’s the only one that doesn’t have one. Perhaps j.hp? I’ve seen it happen against Sakura and Bison on rare occasions. It would be cool if it was official. or are the ones they’d most likely use if they gave it to him since like other cross-ups the hitbox extends past his center line. crosses up in sfxt i think.