Err… all of Japan knows RC wakeups are invulnerable. EVERYBODY there has a CvS2 book. =P The generic counters to Honda are either counter character/grooving him or to kick back and build meter, since just about every character makes better usage of meter than Honda.
Reversals have a two frame window. One is the first frame that you get up with, and the other is the frame directly preceding it. Ever since Super Street Fighter 2 when reversals were given a name it has simply meant the execution of a special move/super/whathaveyou at the earliest possible moment.
Get off of bucktooths and gunters nuts??? Please explain to me where that comment came from? I don’t remember saying anything about them.
Also even though it was a joke, you joke how its cheating that he has cvs2 guide book. You do not need a freaking guide book to know that its possible to roll as a reversal. This was known the first day the game came out.
As for everyone that “hates” me now. Ah hello i wasnt the one that started this you can’t RC on wake up crap. I came into this thread to say as with the other couple people that said it, that yes it is possible. It is not my fault that you are all so dense and i had to I keep saying it.
I see though i guess you need to save face beacuse a “random” person prooved you wrong. So now i am the bad guy. lol :rolleyes: Some people you are…
kcxj… hope you weren’t talking about me… because i simply suggest they say something about it because you and your buddy just kept saying shit like despite me giving long ass explanations as to why you are wrong, never really giving any points. I didn’t need a damn CvS2 guide to figure this one out seeing… how it is common knowledge that rolls are invulnerable from startup (how else do people roll through poke strings? Or roll away from crossups? Its also common knowledge that rolls can be performed as reversal directly off the ground. You put the two and two together… wakeup RC can be done. Its like if x = 3, y= 4… x+y = 7, not 2… you add the two together. But since people still argued about it… I was like let Gunter and Buk confirm it for me since people decided to not bother reading what i said.
Everytime you get a knockdown on your opponent, doesn’t automatically mean you have to go for meaty attack everytime. Rather than all out guessing by trying to do a super or CC either, sometimes if may be beneficial in wakeup situations to wait a split second and let the opponent make the first move instead.
Knowing what you and your opponent’s characters are both capable of in all situations is paramount. As you can see in the video, Blanka was at his full attack potential after the knockdown throw (since he was charged AND he had full meter). Sakura on the other hand, was just getting up and had no meter.
Options Sakura had on wakeup:
-just block low
-RC special on wakeup
-reversal roll
-normal attack on wakeup
-wakeup throw
Blanka CC activation counters all those options except just block low.
Therefore, Blanka knockdown attack. Whiff ball to move into more powerful position. Wait a split second to see if Sakura moves or not… ching (as opposed to just ching right away…)
Of course a little anticipation is needed. It’s important to read your opponent and get a feel for what he/she might want to try next. Giving the opponent a frame is big thing I keep in mind in not just CvS2, but every fighting game that has these wake-up/frame advantage situations.
this is a general question vs A groove… I’ve seen in the past… Choi and Ricky whiff a jab and then when they activate… they immediately super/DP them… but if they don’t activate… they don’t get the super… like I can do the whole jab then super thing… but i have to do the motion for the super before the activation… i don’t see how they do this on reaction to the activation.
CC activation has signifcant startup. It’s akin to doing to a non-grab level 1 upclose. As long as you’re in a neutral state, you can DP the A-groover on reaction everytime. The trick is to wait for the half second CC “freeze” to wear off first (otherwise, no inputs are valid).
I made a thread about this last time too (but nobody replied). I think that if you’re already in a blocking animation during the CC flash, it becomes harder to DP (or counter CC/super/whatever) the custom. There’s like an extra frame or something thrown in there so the timing is different. Since I don’t have an exact frame data book, I couldn’t confirm or deny anything though.
With supers, it’s more of an anticipation thing. When Choi/Ricky is whiffing that jab, they’re already inputting the joystick motion for the super (the jab locks them in place). If they see that the A-groover took that bait and activated, that’s when they finish the motion and hit the button for the counter CC super. Am I right about that? Personally, I’m not very good at supering CC activations on reaction Ino-style. I can CC or DP, but if you ever watch me play and see me counter super a CC, it was dumb luck. :lol:
CC activation freezes time. Whatever state your opponent is in before the activation, they will be in when the CC freeze is over. Worst case, you might lose one frame (due to the button press), but 1 frame isn’t “significant”. Also, the instant the freeze wears off, the 19 frames of invulnerability start. If your DP hits before the 19 frames are up, you’ll pass through. Likewise, if the opponents DP is invulnerable for say, 10 frames, and you CC c.MK which is say, 6 frames, you’ll pass through.
CC, d.MK (or whatever other usual starter you might use) isn’t “instant” like a Sagat level 3 that’s all I know. The kind of super you can’t block unless you were already blocking. Good luck trying to DP that when Sagat activates it right in your face. That’s why I made the comparison of CC to a level 1 super (a more invincible and versitile level 1 of course).
I used the wrong techincal jargon when I said CC’s have significant startup. Tragic did a better job of explaining how DPing CC’s work in the above post. Just go by that if anybody else is still wondering.
“Including the 5 frames of start up, the first 19 frames of a CC are totally invincible.” -from bukteef’s cvs2 systems guide
There’s definately a slight delay in when your move comes if you do CC, move as opposed to just doing the move straight up. One frame or whatever as Tragic said. That’s why baiting a random activation and DPing your opponent (with something nice and invincible) works so well (and what I was trying to say when I said “significant startup”).
Justin Wong is really good at doing this btw… watch out for his Sagat if anybody here plays A-groove and plans on attending an East Coast tourney soon.
On a semi-related note, this game would totally suck if CC’s seriously did freeze time (behaved like a level 3 Sagat super or whatever) wouldn’t it? Press two buttons up close and if the opponent’s not blocking… oops you’re dead.
Get it while you can guys. I already placed my order. It’s the only place I’ve found that you can get it in the US. (Yes, I’ve checked my two local nerd shops too… Sarge’s comics, New England comics etc…)
Hey, thanks. Do you know if the guide will be helpful for those that can’t read japanese? I can probably figure out the charts…if there are charts.:o I’m just interested in the frame data.
Actually I don’t think this is true… I think if you do a fast enough move, your CC will act like a lvl3. I think it gives you some super freeze or whatever.
Go into training and get the dummy to CC->low forward. With Ken or something. If you time it right, you won’t be able to block it. You can even be walking backwards, wait for the “ChinG!” and you won’t be able to crouch block in time. (ghetto Valle CC?)
It’s gotta be timed just right, but I think CC does give you some freeze, like supers do. Maybe someone else can check this out…
CC’s give you 1 frame of ignored inputs after the flash… im not sure if this applies to you as well as your opponent though… there’s nothing you can do that will hit in under 1 frame…
so its definately not llike a level 3, but it does freeze a lil bit (1 frame)
Using a a frame-programmable controller, I ran a test using Rolento:
LP,LP, CC, c.MK
LP gives +5
c.MK hits in 4
This is basically considered a 1-frame link (pressing button is 1F, +4 frames of ex, hits just in time)
Anyway, programmed in with the very minimum delay time between LP -> CC activation, and CC activation -> c.MK, this will not hit. I tried it about 50 times and tweaked every possible setting on the controller. It will not connect.
I know for a 100% fact that Ryu/Ken c.LP (+7), CC, c.MK (4 EX) connects. Outside of custom, this is obviously an easy 3-frame link. Wven with CC activation inbetween, this link is pretty easy. I’m almost certain you lose only 1-frame on CC activation.
Anyway, activating CC does not make your normal move any faster (ie: doesn’t turn it into a level 3 speed normal or anything). Although this is probably obvious to most people, just wanted to clear it up.
The point of all this is that I’m 99.9% certain that 1-frame links outside of customs are impossible using CC activation inbetween.
