For shits and giggles here is my tier list.
God Tier - Uranus (Banned)
Top Tier - Shenlong, Alice, Jenny, Marvel
High Tier - Long, Uriko
Mid Tier - Xion, Yugo, Kohryu, Gado
Low Tier - Bakuryu, Busuzima
Bottom Tier - Stun
My tier list is in from left to right. Subject to change like all tier lists.
Possible bias but i think Marvel has more favorable matchups than Jenny, especially against fellow top tiers.
Shenlong for example has to be much more careful against her when applying pressure because of the alpha counter super which in turn lets Marvel control the pace of the match.
She can pop that super AFTER she blocks and still get it which is RETARDED. Jenny is higher on mine PURELY due to conversion. I actually think everyone else in top and high tier is more solid than her but her ability to kill in a combo that you cant get out of is very powerful. If not for her comboability I would put her bottom of high tier most likely. But you are probably right when it comes to Marvel compared to Jenny. I think my main issue with Marvel is that she is slow compared to the higher tiers but her options are amazing.
Its as long as the opponent is still in recovery when the super is used it will activate fully so its not quite that bad lol, still one of the best supers in the game.
Got BR3 from a local retro gaming store. The combat is as fast and fluid as I remember. Yugo…damn I forgot that he lost so many mids from BR2. In BR2 he had good footsies but low damage conversion. Now he has better conversion but lost footsie options.
Meh. He’s ok. Def not low tier but being resigned to 2P and 6PPP with a cancel point at the end isnt enough. He also lost his 3K sweep. Faster version of Gado’s. smh. fuck outta here Eighting.
Can you please post up Jenny’s most devastating combos? im feeling her ALOT. She gained A SHIT TON in BR3. Her walk speed is bleh but her pokes, combo damage, new cancel points and pressure make up for it. 4P is a heavy, cancel point AND it floats?! Also hits mid. In beast form she can just hit confirm from a cancel then 214K jump cancel huge combo.
That slut is serious.
launch (ac) 6P 236B (ac) 6P 236B (ac) 6P 236B (ac) 6P 4Pxx236k
launch (ac) 8P2B 236B (ac) 2B B (ac) 8P2B 4Pxx236K
launch (ac) 8P2B 236B (ac) 8P2B 4Pxx236K
launch (ac) 8K2B K (ac) BBB 4Pxx236k
launch (ac) 8K2B K (ac) BBB PP6KKKKK (ac) 2P+K wall only
Super can replace 236K in most combos for more damage
for the first combo you want to use 6P as close to the ground as possible
edit*
Also forgot to say first combo needs to be done from an untechable lauch
236P? Sure you dont mean 236B for the first combo?
Also Option Select Guard Tech makes Gado worthless imo.
Hold heavy guard and mash throw. All throws will be teched. Gado suffers greatly from this.
Oops my bad yeah 236B ill fix that in my post.
Heavy Guard/Tech OS is not that much use, it helps against command cancel throw setups but otherwise can be opened up by jump over cross ups or just chipping away with mid/low mixups.
Lightguard is almost always preferable to heavy guard unless dealing with guard breaks since heavy guard will leave you in block stun for longer, Gado can take advantage of this with 6BBxx(cc) and lock you down and get in a free unblockable super. in human its a little harder for him to deal with the OS but he can just keep poking away with max range 2K and 3K.
Guard escape makes that string far easier to deal with than BR1 and 2. In those games his guard breaks were a threat and he has really good frame traps from his cancel points but his lows are not scary as they dont lead to all that much.
He feels like pure brute force now. his frame trap game feels like it has holes due to system changes.
Oh no doubt about it you can’t play Gado like you would in BR2 due to system mechanic changes, hes a much more patient and defensive style character now, the trade off for losing so much offense is he has much more raw power than he did before letting him turn around or end the match in a single go.
You really have to treat him like an entirely new character from his BR2 version.
Two things i wanna mention.
That player you argued with a while back named, PFTM, is a strong player in Japan I believe. die hard BR fan and has won tournaments. And yet there were things about the game he did not know AND his tier list was very different. Seems like a classic clash of top level experience vs in-depth mechanical knowledge. I think you both had points but his lack of empirical evidence was disturbing. You actually had to post a vid to prove your point, something he could have tested himself. idk i just wanted to point out that just because you may possibly be the best in a FG doesnt mean you know it all.
Second thing…Xion. This dude is GOOD!!! Footsies are nasty ESPECIALLY in beast form due to wrist/ankle blades boosting range. TONS of guard breaks. Has actual safe strings on block and alot of good cancel points too. 3B is a cancel, ground bounces and hits mid. Saw a japanese player loop it about 8 times by itself. Leads into easy juggle with PPPP or air combo with 236B.
Only real issue is several of his strings, have noticible breaks so he can be interuppted easily but thats alleviated with proper spacing and cancel mix ups. I think he is up there with Long and Uriko. He feels like a faster BR2 Gado with more mix ups. The frame trap game with 3KK is similar and he doesnt need beast to access this tool.
PFTM is a vietnamese player he uploads various stuff to youtube and nico quite frequently (or at least he used to) he is a good player and i don’t mean any to disrespect him at all, different views on tier lists is to be expected and it normally brings some good character discussion, but come on, Stun over Alice or Uriko lol command throws are good, but not that good.
Anyway
Xion is very strong at midrange/footsies but unlike Long or Alice he struggles much more when people are in his face, Like you said because of his range and cancel points lots of his strings can be made safe, 6BBxx236P is sooo good.
3B is good for hit confirming but unless your execution is godlike and you can do hundreds or reps the ground bounce loop is pretty pointless other than to show off due to damage scaling on it.
One thing to note with Xion is some of his combos only work in a closed stance and he’s the only character in the game effected by this to my knowledge.
Been messing around and now I feel confident in saying both BR2 and BR3 have merit in a competitive environment. Hell BR3 did some things, that I consider scrubby. Just-frame cancels and attacks like Gado’s human form throw cancel and Long’s 3 hit set up of 46+K, 6+B, 2+P, have bigger windows. The beast drives all have generic double qcf or qcb motions. Good for standardization, but bad for individuality. Health bars are longer so footsies mean less. Its all about combos and launcher set ups now. Combine that with the new dodge system, and guys like Gado cant hold a candle to Alice or even his own daughter. BR2 struck a better balance between footsies and rushdown imo. Also the damage values make no sense. Why does Jennys beast drives hit harder than Gados and Stuns? Why pick them if her ability to end games is greater off her drive? At least Hugos supers do more than Chuns in 3s.
Some damage values make little sense. Uriko does ABYSMAL damage. Her drives do as much as a stronger throw. Hell, stuns chain throws do more. Yugos low throw does 9 and his 3K, a decent mid hitting poke does the same. Long and ShenLong have similar pokes but do 15 and 13 respectively. wtf?
Also revised tier list imo. in order from left to right.
God - Uranus
Top - ShenLong, Shina, Jenny, Alice
High - Long, Xion, Uriko
Mid - Kohryu, Gado, Yugo
Low - Bakuryu, Stun
Bottom - Busuzima
Jenny and Shina are tied imo. Alice is tame compared to the other tops but has no real gameplay flaws that hurt her. Long can hang with top. His only issue is no mid hitting launcher to make opponents fear crouch blocking. But his 2 hitting natural combos, footsies and throw set ups make him strong and versatile. Xion has the buttons and the combos. Weaker up close than Long but his amazing footsies is the trade off. Uriko imo can hang with top BUT her damage is pitiful and scaling hurts her even more so high tier for her
BR2 was the best just like SF2
They need to remake a new one with BR2 ideas and concept.
I def like the analogy of BR2 is to ST as BR3 is to 3S. BR2 focuses more heavily on footsies and fundamentals. BR3 focuses more on footsies setting the pace of the match, then opening them up for huge damage with set-ups into damaging round ending combos.
I think the best BR game would strike a balance between BR2 and BR3. A return to the presentation and atmosphere of BR2 but more of BR3’s music and system mechanics. The juggle system is better in BR3 and the dodge system works better in juggles than the neutral step system because air step hurts the juggle/air combo game. For the ground game, I think the neutral step system is better. It adds a greater sense of risk vs reward, when dealing with rushdown and mix-ups. Also dodge hurts footsies more than neutral step hurts rushdown. If the dodge system was implemented they need to make it less easy mode. Low attacks should be dodged with 2+Heavy guard. Not just 1+Heavy guard for everything. That’s easy mode.
Also Heavy Guard OS Tech isn’t nearly as strong in BR2. This really hurts Gado. I know it was said it didn’t but really what can Gado do vs Jenny or Alice when they get life lead and sit on block. Gado has to take a risk to open them up and if he does a slow 3K and it gets dodged, he is finished. Free launch punish into combo. He’s dead. This is why Long and ShenLong are so strong. They don’t give a fuck about the OS and the other higher tiers have really good mid level launchers/pokes.
Interesting shift in tier list what made you place Stun above Busuzima?
Im not going to lie i absolutely hated the beast drive motions in BR2 lol.
As i said before i think both types of evade have pros and cons and i feel the evade in BR3 makes spacing far more important in BR3 than in BR2, however i do agree that evading a low should be 2+HG or 3+HG, tho on the other side delaying or staggering attacks is far more effective at getting through evade in BR3 than BR2 and a mistimed evade wont lead to a successful block.
Speaking of easy mode one of the major flaws in BR2 was how back dash cancelling worked in that game, basically you do a regular backdash cancel but keep holding back and when you release HG your character will do a second back dash without having to do any input. this often led to people taking the life lead then simply running away for the remainder of the match.
Honestly the heavy guard OS is not that big of a deal, jump over 4K or 4B blows the OS clean open, Gado’s super cant be blocked, teched or eveded making the OS useless if hes in beast and if he’s in human he can just build meter forcing them to stop, not to mention how hard it is to keep the OS going for any period of time its just not something you can sit doing to avoid damage, its only real use is to help against kara throw set ups.
Jenny’s supers shouldn’t be doing more damage than Gado’s or Stun’s im not sure how you are getting those number’s, also Gado’s and Stun’s supers can go through block/evade and have much faster start up times. Uriko’s Ball super can be mashed and steered into walls for more damage while her wall dive super will do various different things depending on opponents state when it connects (front facing, back facing, airborne). kind of makes sense that Long has better pokes than Shenlong with Shenlong being primarily a rushdown character and his move set reflecting that.
A few things can effect how much damage is dealt, Beast Drive damage his higher the more meter you have when its used, You deal more damage when hitting your opponent in the back, Everyone take’s less damage while in beast than they do in human, Not all characters have the same health/defense values.
Character health ratings as are followed:
Human Mode
High:
Stun, Gado, Kohryu
Average:
Yugo, Long
Low:
Marvel, Busuzima, Alice, Bakuryu, Jenny, Uriko
Very Low:
Xion, Shenlong
Beast Mode
Very High:
Stun
High:
Gado
Average:
Yugo, Long, Kohryu
Below Average:
Marvel, Shenlong
Low:
Alice, Bakuryu, Busuzima, Jenny, Xion
Very Low:
Uriko
Without manual sidestep, I feel its harder to run from a good player in BR2.
I have to test cross ups to see how good they are vs the OS, but if you see that wouldnt it be an easy evade? Gados grab super only hits high. ew. Staggering your attacks is good in both games, but def better in BR3 due to dodge system. But neutral step def doesnt hurt footsies as much. You neutral step a max range 3K from Gado, he doesnt care. In BR3 he cares, cuz its a free punish no matter the range same for most non cancellable pokes.
Busuzima is ass. Wild, flailing and unsafe.
Also my friend thinks Jenny is the best. im starting to think so too