To be fair about Renji, these other captains have had many years (hundreds?) to practice with their bankai. Renji used the shortcut method to achieve his and doesn’t have nearly enough practice. Toshiro is a good example. It’s been said before that he needs to level up his bankai but his potential is ridiculous. You don’t instantly become good with your bankai. Ichigo is the exception and even then he didn’t level his up to its full potential until the final version.
(We also still never saw Aizen’s Bankai, which he apparently has if he’s Captain class. Then again, he could just used his shikai to lie about that too, though given how much better he was than everyone else save Yamamoto on every basic level, it seems highly unlike that he doesn’t have one.)
True, true. The Ichigo that beat ButterflAizen was extremely powerful and the most powerful entity that’s shown up in the manga (from what I’ve heard, given that I gave up way before that). Still, I thought he lost that broke-ass power-set due to it being a side-effect of the bullshit “Final Getsuga” that popped up out of nowhere, like Ishida’s much better explained, much lesser Quincy boost that used to beat Mayuri. Hell, wasn’t him being powerless and “back to normal” the entire part of the recent Fullbring arc before this?
I didn’t pay attention to that arc at all, so I’m possibly incorrect about this. However, it would seem difficult to believe that he got anywhere near the amount of power back, which is kinda of what I was getting; I’ll try to be more concise about it this time.
What I was ultimately saying is while Ichigo has that weird, “natural Vizard” thing going on, it’s still not nearly as much of a plot-tumor as being Saiyan is Saiyans always get stronger when they fight, no matter what, due to their idiotic physiology. Ichigo doesn’t have that “restriction”. He just got a nifty mask that boosts his power & speed with the side effect that it doesn’t last for that long and occasionally makes him a lot more mentally unstable. He also has genuine inexperience that shouldn’t exactly be overcome anytime soon given how long-lived everyone in Soul Society is (for some reason) on top of a relatively crappy, rather “small” Bankai.
So he’s really not naturally beholden to being the one to always bring down the Big Bad, especially when more experienced, presumably more powerful Captains fail. (Because even with his mask, pre-Final Getsuga Ichigo was maybe as strong as Kenpachi without his eyepatch. Maybe. And there’s at least four other captains above Kenpachi, so…)
Kubo basically wrote himself into a corner on something that he could have easily taken back or manipulated into something other than “a power is a power!” if he had thought about it a bit more. Hell, Kubo could have had the HoHoQ sabotage Aizen’s massive strength and still had Aizen be a threat, especially with Yamamoto already down due to Wonderweiss. Just Saiyan.
Atleast 1 captain will die, and Ichigo will save the day with some new tech
Aww man The Damned sighting yea yea!!
Real talk Bleach is/was one of my fav shonens. So like us all i had a theory in my mind how the arrancar arc would go–but it didnt play out. Aizen got sent to Soul Society san quentin and bleach pretty much was done. It sorta hurt cause bleach wasnt the same…
Fast foward I saw that bleach was ending so after Aizen its like its about damn time really lol now with the quincies just showing up and taken names it’s like holy shit why didnt we get this last arc?? Shit I think Amagai cause more drama for Soul Society in the filler than the arrancars ever did.
So thats why Im hyped up!!! I love when the bad guys show up dont say shitlike what their plans are and how they are gonna take over the world Just take peeps out and your left wondering wtf why they so mad? why are peeps dying out here? Damned I get extra hyped for that shit lol.
Supposely the captains and soul society in general because of FNJ from Ichigo opened up to being more connected. Old School Byakuya would never coach Renji or depend on him. Byakuya understands now that maybe Renji was truly weak because he didn’t coach him. How can I show faith in my vice captain by saying i will attack first and you back me up and or take the enemy out if he gets me.
Thats huge growth for Byakuya–not the smartest move but if Im like renji and I have confidence issues hearing that Im like shit he looks at me like his equal even tho everytime i fought him he left me holding a old broken monkey bone.
So yes the captains are dumb for striking first when the vice captains should have man’d up based on the intel. But i’ll let it slide–shit if I can let Aizen losing slide then I can let anything in this manga slide.
It starts from the first reports I hear yea so they can seal or negate bankai. Oh really 11th div take the vanguard Ikkaku and Yumichika bait the enemy with your bankai Kenpachi observe and counter hard.
when the enemy hits you with a surprise attack you gotta adapt and freestyle based on what lil intel you have.
only Ichigo and Uruhara used the shortcut method
Renji did it the normal way, he learned how to invoke and all the crap that was needed to do it, what he lacks is the 10 years of practice to start mastering his banka, for what we know, his bankai could be like hipstergaya bankai that is somehow incomplete and inmature
It’s been so long and I forgot. But the point is the years of practice in which Renji hasn’t gotten. So I agree with you. And it would be interesting if his bankai is indeed like a fleshy form of Toshiro’s ice dragon. That’d be a sick and believable power up. No more hilt would even be good. I just think him swinging a huge ass snake by its tail isn’t the most effective way of fighting.
You’re right and wrong.
You’re ‘correct’ about DBZ, I feel you’re incorrect on Bleach. Essentially Ichigo has gotten hack on hack on hack, and each hack gets partially erased or forgotten, but there is nothing written to prevent him from ‘stacking’, and the sheer nature of his ‘ability’ means he will just continue to get stronger.
He steals Rukia’s powers for a bit…
Gets his own powers…
Learns a special move…
Unlocks bankai…
Gets a mask…
Becomes ‘Dark Ichigo’…
Learns X-factor Lvl3 Dark Ichigo…but doesn’t have the execution to be in control…
Changes gears and unlocks his GGX OHK…
Loses ALL power…yeah right…
Find out he still had a sliver…
‘Dark Ichigo’ is no where to be seen, but he can still use as assist to create ‘Fullbring’…
Never ‘fully’ explored…
Gets somewhat ‘taken away’ we are to assume…though the reason for it hasn’t changed…
Gets injected with powers from ALL the Captains on some Seth type shit…never explored what this has done…
So we have someone who has his own shinigami powers, additional power from other Caps, meaning on some tangent for all we know he could have gotten some of their abilities and just not known it yet (not banking but saying its possible), he has NO reason to have lost the ‘mask’ ability, he attained a level higher that in theory he should know HOW to force himself to now. He also ‘knows’ how to fullbroughten which ampligfies everything.
Oh and his actual special ability is really ‘power amplification’ (thats how I see it), so in essence he can continually self boost himself akin to a sayijin. Homey has the reitsu of a captain and the ninja isn’t even 18 yet. He’s got a pop who HASN’T trained him at all. He has a shikai and bankai which obviously aren’t being used to their full ability and has been alluded to for years.
I guess I’m saying that his progression may not be Goku like in terms of how natural it is, his brokenness is just as Game Genie like. Goku made a spirit bomb, Ichigo became one. Tit for tat.
- :bluu:
I’m fairly sure you’re right, but Ishida? Damn kubo. Chad better have that save ready. Maybe Ishida and dad can hook it up. Maybe next week is a long ways away now…
In truth, were they ever anything BUT crowd control? In the vegeta saga, there was no crowd around, so they thought to get up and bark. The result? Everybody gets shot. In the Frieza saga, at least dende was there so krillin and gohan hung back. The result? Everybody gets shot…Except Gohan. 
Cell saga? Everybody gets shot…But Gohan saves the day anyway. Really, crowd controll is about the extent of it for most of them.
-Starhammer-
(For the record, I don’t hate Renji. I just hate how utterly useless he is, which is saying something in a manga full to the brim with utterly useless characters.
[I’ll get around to Unreallystic’s next post since that **wasn’t** there when I began typing this.])
Oh, I fully understand that Renji’s Bankai isn’t at “full power” yet. At least, I definitely “hope” it isn’t considering it’s easily the worst Bankai in the entire manga. Seriously that thing is worse than Ichigo’s, which is saying something. Even if Renji does legitimately have (a lot) more potential for growth, he has at least five rather significant points against him:
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Renji’s Bankai is just really weird to wield. It’s like a faux version of his Shikai whip sword, only somewhat bigger & blunter with slightly greater “regeneration” and possible semi-sentience. That’s it. I mean, it also has a beam blast or whatever, but I think that causes it to self-destruct; I forget and I’m too lazy/“busy” to look it up right now. Whereas every other Bankai, even Ichigo’s, can simultaneously double as offense and defense, Renji gets stuck playing either offense or defense given how he still has to hold on to the thing by its wonky hilt, but can’t swing it nearly as quickly as he can his shikai due to the added weight and relatively lack of (cutting) edges. My, how frightening.
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Renji has a problem of being compared, somewhat justifiably, rather frequently to Ichigo given that they both achieved Bankai roughly around the same time and both ended up having beef with Byakuya over Rukia’s imprisonment. Only problem is that Renji, unlike Ichigo, isn’t the main character, so he of course gets his ass kicked by Byakuya even after Bankai. It also doesn’t help that Ichigo was beating up Renji when they both had only their shikai before Byakuya first stepped in.
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Renji has the problem, much more minor admittedly and easily the least of among these five, of having a shitty Bankai compared even to Madarame, who doesn’t (openly) practice with his because he’s too afraid of being promoted to Captain just because he has it. Madarame’s, while rather straightforward, also has the bonus of being practical, powerful and gaining power the longer the fight goes on; it’s also cool-looking compared to Renji’s, which is important in a visual medium, especially one with as much substance-less flash as Bleach. That Madarame’s Bankai actually worked the one time he used it helps Madarame and hurts Renji.
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Renji has the misfortune of being the Vice Captain to the most competent and most frequently around Captain in Byakuya (in terms of actual ability because, again, fuck Hitsugaya). This makes him look further weak, especially when compared to other frequent Vice Captains, whose shikai are arguably all better than his shikai except Fatass Richie Rich’s mace and the first seat Vice Captain with his stupid fencing foil. That makes Renji look even weaker.
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Renji’s most damning problem, though, is that he’s been around since almost the beginning of the manga but has literally won only one fight despite appearing prominently in literally every arc; again, the Fullbring arc might not count here since I wasn’t around for that. Literally the only character that’s as bad as him is maybe Chad since Ishida’s won at least two fights and Orihime is a pacifist, so she doesn’t count despite how busted her powers could be. Chad at least has an excuse because he also doesn’t like to fight needlessly and, unlike Renji, didn’t go to school for formal battle training. For having graduated from his class with notable ability or whatever, for all his supposed dedication, Renji has pretty much nothing to show for it (as if often the case).
Hell, even if Renji does have potential for growth, this is kinda a horrible venue to prove that, even though this is so obviously supposed to be where Renji can “show what he’s learned” one last time; the fact that this is the final arc also doesn’t help him. So too bad what he’s learned isn’t going to ultimately amount to anything. At best they’ll maybe learn that only one Bankai can be stolen per person and Renji will maybe beat up this As Nodt character.
Too bad he’s probably going to still get his shit pushed in when Quincy El Fuerte comes back.
Fair enough. I can understand that, especially since it becomes rather grating for villains to constantly explain their motives and such mid-battle when they otherwise have no reason to. It’s why facepalm so hard at how many times people have explained the abilities, just in this manga alone, only for it to backfire horribly, i.e. Shinji. I seriously think only people with powers that “need” to be explain that haven’t done so immediately are Mayuri (I forget), Kyoraku and Gin; I’m not counting Aizen here for obvious reasons.
So, yeah, it’s somewhat refreshing, even if it seems like the Quincy as a whole right now have the basest goal of “kill every Soul Society motherfucker you come across”. It’s a bit less substantive in that case, but at least it’s something, which is sad to say.
Again, though, this is why you got a reprieve.
Hahahahaha.
A well-suited name for that asshole. Congrats, even if you didn’t come up with it.
I understand what your getting at here, and I think pre-time skip there was alot of validity to it, and possibly right now there still is tons of validity to it, however I think once fully explored, his bankai provides exactly that - off and def…he’d have the ability to be a ‘big’ version of his captain (I hate all there fucking names byaka whatever)…we’ve seen him do it, but he’s never been multi-tasking with it (which is HIM more so than the bankai). From a potential stand point I can see him pretty much surrounding himself in perma-molecular shield with some of the bones and having other pieces flying around shooting shit out the blade sides. Wil lthat ever happen, prolly not, if it does, he’ll fight someone who’s a natural counterpick anyways…
- :bluu:
(Okay, good. I don’t have to double post.)
I suppose it’s possible that his Bankai could break down that small, but even if it could, it seems like it would potentially make him immobile or at least slower given that, as you said, he’s never been very good at multi-tasking. It should be good at both offense and defense even with its current range limit just it’s most openly automonous of any of the swords save for Mayuri’s and maybe Kyoraku’s.
It just…isn’t or, at least, hasn’t been.
Well apparently I’ve missed some bullshit. I can’t say I’m surprised.
Why did this happen, exactly?
“Wait, what?”
Sigh. I can see this happening, especially since his Bankai is supposedly amplification already due to compressing his spirit pressure or whatever ill-fleshed out bullshit
I thought Isshin did train him though, if only for the purpose of teaching him Final Getsuga or whatever. I’m guessing you’re talking about Isshin not formally teaching him besides that, right?
Oh, I’m not debating that Ichigo ultimately isn’t broken. I’m just saying–tempted to use that stupid pun here–that unlike with Toriyama, Kubo doesn’t have to make him broken; Kubo just is.
Kubo makes Ichigo retardedly broken because he’s too lazy to develop the potential top tier cast he quickly shelves.
holy shit guys, whole bleach manga has less text than this page alone =|
I was really disappointed on hearing the end of the series and really disappointed at the end of the Aizen arc. oh well!
Why are they ending Bleach anyone?
Because it sucks.
So I just spent half an hour reading through the final arc figured more would have happened since feb but then there is that golden week and Kubo’s D3 vacation.
I recall in the older threads thinking some hollow masked Quinces would be great especially with implied genocide [S]for science![/S] by Shinigami… glad that worked out; now if Renji could just grab that baboon [S]bone[/S] skull he might be useful for two consecutive [S]chapters[/S] pages. Either way Uryu is going to [S]be[/S] look relevant for a few chapters :rock:
All the balance talk and soul recycling at the start left me wondering about the soul balance in kings hell and hell mexico. Would cannibal hollows be one strong soul of many weak souls?
Report was inaccurate, or the 1st one who gets message screwed up and misheard “t”, that could explain all of cpt. faces 
Yeah, you are right, but still I think they thougt that Quincis are going to facepalm over their retardness and bam! Renji will blast right in their faces! But still in SS are at least 2 people lower than Cpt. rank who can do bankai (renji, Ikkaku). As we know, Ikkaku wont use bankai so easily so, only Renji could be useful for the first time, but nope.
I loved the moment when almost every cpt. said to their vc “if they seal my bankai, win it for me”, few panels later OMG KUBO TROLLED US, IT ACTUALLY REALLY WORKS!
After all, Renji has the most useless bankai/shikai ever, there was not one fight which he won by skill. He had like 4? fights and all win because someone have helped him, in karakura against arrancars, his opponnent was distracted by beam, in Hueco Mundo, that mad scientist, Mayuri sama saved his ass, Ichigo nearly kill him, Byakuya detto…
…and Matsumoto is useless, but she can not die, shes like one of the last members of the Oppai club in SS. I am 100% sure, that Kubo is saving her for TV Tokyo so they could make another Beach episode
Renji is a jobber compared to Ishida who hiding back his powers.
(Yeah, I’m pretty sure Bleach is ending because its “ratings” tanked after the BS with the “Winter War” and Aizen. Don’t exactly think it’s because anyone’s clamoring for Zombie Powder.)
Since the Quincy are killing off fodder, maybe they’ll kill off some of Ichigo’s worthless friends to give yet another power-up.
Unrelated, but did Tatsuki ever amount to anything, even if it was just lesbianism with Orihime?
Basically.
Making your characters overpowered on purpose is even lazier than them just accidentally ending up that way because you didn’t bother to think it through long enough.
That’s really not saying much.
We could fill this entire page with nothing but ellipses and that would still have more text than some Bleach chapters.
IMO, he’s starting to write himself into a corner. at least if it “ends” now, he can always come back later on. Ghost In The shell has “ended” twice already, but it can always sprout a third series if they feel like it. Same with bleach. I’d say let it end on a high note, give kubo time to go do whatever, let mass hysteria tear through the world for a while, and then come back later.
-Starhammer-