Why is they’re so much protest against tiers? Is it because scrubs don’t want to face that fact that they’re not playing the game with a full deck?
That defiantly true, I was surprise of the ability and lack of options I had with my characters and didn’t play accordingly. Its really uncomfortable to see this in game from arskys.
I don’t want to make excuses but I’m confident that many player still don’t fully understand the game. I have no arcades near me, and the game only been release a few weeks. What truly caught me off guard was the ability’s of other characters which i can only learn in so little time while at the same time trying to develop a style with my characters. I’m not losing to in depth strategy’s but gimmicks that’s are already consider too powerful.
I admit their is adapting to scenarios and competitive environment but arakune loops is just stupid all together. for whats it is worth, if close the technical gap advantages with match up’s that are more even characters i can win a lot more but I don’t desire to that. I plan to stick with Hakumen, he truly is underrated. For that matter most of the low tiers are.
Thank you. Hakumen is VERY underrated. Have you ever countered a barrier burst? Sooo much damage! Just remember that every character has a huge glaring weakness, the top tiers are no exception. Find that weakness and find out how to exploit it with your character.
Yes indeed. Im aware, while most of my competitors focuses on combos, Ive been forcing mix up and pressure that’s gives my advantages scenario with my style.
Even if I have not been in tournaments, Im known for playing unorthodox from strangers and familiars that actually works.
people tend to forget that street fighter 4 arcade only have 17 characters with people who have similar moves -_-. I will never like the balance of sf4.
But seriously v-13 can be sickening. Hakumen can’t win a tournament? I think he can. I think any of the characters can.
If anyone can’t win a tournament its fei-long. lol
I think we’re all aware that the game boils down to one player vs. the other. But when does it become matchup advantage and a game of two people’s mind? It happens when your character has OPTIONS against the other. Right now the only thing someone like Tager has against V-13 is that when he get in, he can make her bleed. But most V-13 players are going to keep him out. Now big slow grappler vs. zoning master isn’t an uncommon matchup in 2-D games. But the thing that makes this matchup exceptionally bad is the fact that V-13 can deliver chunks of damage to Tager from across the screen. When you look at the typical shoto vs. Zangief match, at least the shoto isn’t inflicting a lot of damage full screen away. Sure Gief could run into the occasional fireball, but it’s not like you can convert it to a damaging 30% combo. It’s bad because V-13 doesn’t need to wait for Tager to make mistakes to really fuck him up bad. She can fuck him up bad all from the comfort of a safe distance. That’s BAD, no matter how you slice it.
At what point does this matchup become player vs. player? If Tager catch her slipping and get a big beefy combo? The matchup is borderline impossible. And let’s be honest Tager is going to be working his ass off to get at V-13, thinking of tricks to close the gap. While V-13 can spam the fuck out of swords and not think at all. This matchup is definitely 8-2, no matter how you slice it.
But I don’t think balance automatically make a game competitive. CVS2, whether you love it or hate it was a pretty balanced game. It had a large amount of characters who had a chance of winning against the top tier. CVS 2 competitive scene has been on life support since at least 2006. I love CVS 2, but there is nothing entertaining or dynamic about high level CVS 2. Which is why Marvel, a blatantly imbalanced game still strives to stay alive, because there is so much going on in high level matches.
I personally don’t think BlazBlue is going to stick around competitively. Because rather you like it or not, the time is coming where we’re going to see some major top 3 whoring in tournaments. And honestly, the prospects of a Rachel vs. Arakune vs. V-13 three way doesn’t have a lot of potential for excitement. It’s a good basis for a game for sure, and the game is fun. But as more people abuse the top tier, we’re going to see less Taokaka’s, Bangs, Hakumen, Litchi’s, and Tagers at higher levels. This game is probably more comparable to GGX, fun game, but definitely was nothing to write home about in terms of balance and competition. This engine is a good one, so it will be interesting to see where Arc Sys take it.
Double post I know. Are you serious about SFIV charactes having similar moves? Ryu, Ken, and Akuma play differently from another. Ryu has a linear zoning game, different specials, making his combos very different. Ryu is a more methodical spacing character. Akuma is a good keep away zoning character who can punish you with good combos, and has a lot of mixups and shennigans. Ken is a straight forward rush that shit down character. The characters all require different mindsets. If that doesn’t make a character different, I don’t know what does. And SFIV is not balanced because of the homogenization of the roster (which is what you’re getting at). It’s obviously they spent more time balancing the characters than BlazBlue did. Blazeblu put way too much shit into the game causing some retarded shit to occur. But I see this a a test game just so Arc Sys can see how much they can expand. But I hate this apologist mentality where you need to berate great games like SFIV to try to ease the reality of BlazeBlu balance issues. BlazBlue is not looking balanced at this point, it is what it is, just learn to live with it. Don’t spread pet theories about other games, because it make us BlazBlue fans look ignorant.
I see your point but how is this any different than people using Mag/Storm/Sent vs Cable/Storm/Sent or any combination of the 2 over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again compared to watching Nu vs Rachel? Its still the same team, same infinites, same everything. Though that is still alive and well competitively. Knowing arc, they will release a second, third, fourth sequels or versions of BlazBlue before it gets balanced to what should be expected. Sure there will still be terrible matchups but hopefully it wont be so one sided in the future.
Exactly, the up-coming games should be at least just as balanced as GG, with more characters as well for added variety. For right now, this current iteration of BB is tournament ready, even if “The Big 3” dominate every tourney.
I said they are similar in moves not the same. Blazblue characters are all completely different from eachother and the style of the game is much faster paced taking balance to another place. We all know v-13 vs tager is retarded… Akuma is better than both ryu and ken.** I** would call him overpowered . Having low health doesn’t bother him when its hard to touch him and he gives just as much damage to the other opponent. Ryu is much better than ken, whether the ken player is fantastic, doesn’t change the fact the ryu is much better for reasons i don’t feel like explaining.
“And SF4 is not balanced because the homogenization* (nice word)* of the roster (which is what i’m getting at)”
Where did you get that from? SF4 isn’t balanced for reasons i don’t feel like picking out right now. (no game is balanced, but i dislike sf4s balance)
“But I hate this apologist mentality where you need to berate great games like SFIV to try to ease the reality of BlazeBlu balance issues.”
I never was a fan of sf4 and disliked it for many reasons (and no i did not suck at sf4 ask around psn forums before you make another crazy assumption), talking about blazblue or not, i’de still talk about sf4 the same way. I never said blazblue didn’t have balance issues. Where do you come up with these assumptions? So far its not looking that bad to me. V-13 and Arakune seems like a problem though. They give v-13 low health, but that doesn’t matter when you cant touch and she gives high damage (like akuma)
I haven’t really been following the japanese blazblue scene but surely there are others winning tournaments then just the big three. I mean, tager made second in sbo qual right? and everyone just keeps screaming nu vs tager makes the game unbalanced, but there he is in the finals.
man srk has some fuckin bad threads but this one is especially so.
also tager is much MUCH more likely to win a single game/elim format, beacuse it lowers the chance of having to play a “stable” 2-8 match, which is nigh unwinnable. you can always random out one game consistently if you’re good enough (especially true for tager, a character who can kill you in 2 good guesses). and hes quite capable of beating anyone that isnt top 3/carl without a lot of difficulty.
Well yeah, now that you’re here.
Lots of words in this thread. Its pretty simple really, if you know your match ups and have really solid execution you can win with low tiers, just like any game (love him or hate him, but look at J Wong and Mahvel).
Tiers, imho, are strictly measures of how much effort is involved in the match up. An 8-2 match up is going to be a lot less work for the person with the 8 than the 2, but it doesn’t mean its functionally impossible. This means that low tier character must put in a lot more effort. And that’s really all there is to it.
^ this
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Was there a misunderstanding? I thought that’s what the tier listings were?
Reading this thread has made my brain hurt.
Tier lists are NOT a way to measure how much effort is required to win with a character.
Any match Carl wins is because he put in more effort than the opponent. Arakune requires EFFORT to be good. Rachel requires EFFORT to be good.
Let’s say Carl is 5-5 with Hakumen. Carl has to put in a LOT more EFFORT than Hakumen just to be even with Hakumen. Carl players spend HOURS in training mode just trying to get puppet control down. Hakumen spends 20 minutes learning to hit his j.2c loop. It’s not an equal amount of EFFORT for an equal match up.
I really hate when people get all pissy about tiers. Tiers aren’t a reflection of ease of use or effort required to win with them. Tiers accurately depict the strength or potential of a character played at the highest level. IE, v-13 played at the highest level WRECKED Hakumen played at the highest level due to inherit strength of that character, not at all due to the EFFORT the players put forth.
A good player can win with a bad character. A bad player can lose with a good character. If they players are of equal skill, the better character will almost always win and that’s just the breaks.
Kensk was right. Single elim allows for a lot of randomness to effect results, where as the more tried and true double elim or first to 10 really helps eliminate random bs.
Also, Justin is the best Mvc2 player alive right? He doesn’t play low tier in tourneys for a reason. Because a player or close or equal skill would house him if he played low tier. Justin plays top tier when it counts.
If you want to be a low tier hero, fine. Be that dude. Be the BB Mike Ross. I don’t care. But don’t whine about tiers or try to explain to me why tiers aren’t important.
Not trying to bash anyone, but fucking jesus after how many years of srk being around and tiers being discussed, how can you people really still have it wrong?
:rolleyes:
Play Arakune or Rachel and tell me it’s easy to play them and that just anyone can pick them up and win.
The only S rank character who is easy to use is v-13 due to the power of her drive moves, and she’s typically considered #3 of the big three due to the fact her shit is so predictable. A lot of other characters match up 5-5 or close with her (Jin for one).
But seriously. Play Arakune or Rachel and tell me they are easy to play with. Both those characters require a lot of work to be good with.
If you REALLY want to punish yourself, and put in MAX EFFORT, play fucking Carl and get the fuck over yourself.
Daigo and Justin have never won anything major with anyone other than a top tier character. Ever. EVER. They’ve never even tried. If Daigo came to america right now, and entered an 8 man tourney for SF4 against Combofiend, Ed Ma, Gootecks, Justin Wong, Marn, John Choi, and Arturo, and Daigo played Dan while EVERYONE else played their business characters, Daigo would place last. LAST damn you.
Beating scrubs with a low tier character doesn’t mean anything. Geez.
That’s why is was so embarrassing when Justin Wong beat Dark Prince using a low tier team. It was basically his way of saying Dark Prince was really just a scrub. He’d never have taken that bet vs Sanford or Marn.
Dhalsim, match up wise, is 5-5 with most of the cast and is considered by some to be possible the only character with a good match up vs Sagat
Dhalsim is NOT bottom tier like Dan or Rose. And Iyo didn’t beat Daigo at the exhibition. Top tier beating lower tier again, oh damn :rolleyes: