SBO qualifiers is an obvious one. There must be some other tournaments out there where they have won too.
The comment about Dan/Rose being unable to ever win against a Sagat/Ryu at a professional level is stupid though. If anything at the highest levels of play, anything is possible.
Basically she has a lot of options to keep you out. Once you get in she can rush you right back, and she probably has a trap setup to push you into.
It seems from this tier listing it’s only the opinion of the v-13 player that the character is S-class. The combined opinion of the other players say that v-13 is below Rachel and Arakune. I personally think the latter is closer to the reality.
v-13 can be beat, and isn’t the Sagat character of the game. Very good character, but not crazy good.
And as far as this whole tier listing goes, I think it’s a little overrated. The balance of Blazblue is good enough for any character to be viable, even Tager.
No, no, no, I don’t think Sagat is broken in the least.
BUT, he’s by far the best character in the game, bar none.
OK, I get what your saying, but all I’m trying to say is that it’s MUCH harder to win a tournament with a low-tier SF4 Character, than a low tier (Again, I have no clue who is low-tier in this game, because it’s just that balanced) BB character. Yes, there may be 2 characters in BB who have 3:7 match ups (Tager, Haku-men, correct?) but other than that, the game is pretty fucking even. While in SF4, you have Cammy, Fei-Long, Rose, Dan, Gen, Vega, Sakura, and Seth (Yes, Seth is horrible in tournament play, the only good Seth is Arturo/Sabin) who ALL have bad match up ratio, maybe it’s not 3:7, but it’s still bad, and for THAT many characters, it’s hard to say that SF4 is MORE balanced than BB.
EDIT: BTW, I’m not dissing SF. I was (and still am) HUGE into SF4, but the game has obvious problems, as a large majority of the cast straight up sucks.
EDIT: I know using the tourny held on SRK wasn’t the greatest example, but he was trying to say Tager could never win a tourny, and I had thought Tager won the tourny held here so…-_-; (Oh, and not everyone might have only had this game for 10 days, I’ve heard some people on here have been playing it in there local arcades for months)
who?
tiers based on lack of character matchup knowledge =P gimmie a fucking break
Personally, I have never seen a Rose/Dan beat Sagat/Ryu in professional play.
Have you?
That’s because you hardly ever see console characters in professional play because professionals hardly play on console.
Poongko has used those characters and owned people with them but it could just be matchup unfamiliarity. That said, it’s not good to say that no one can ever beat a pro with those characters, even if the pros started playing and getting used to them.
Didn’t Tokido own some people with Sean in some ranbat?
3s is different. You have parry’s and shit in that, you can beat someone with Sean if you can parry your opponents every move (Actually, maybe not, I’ve seen people get legitimately beaten by Sean) .
Why is there still Street Fighter discussion going on?
And as far as match-ups go in Blazblue, Mike Z. used what apparently is the lowest tier character in the game (Tager) and got second place in Arcade Infinity’s tournament with a pretty damn close match against Goryus’s v-13.
America =/= Japan
Is there an updated tier list anywhere? The one in the OP makes no sense.
Ex:
Rachel vs V-13 is 5:5
V-13 vs Rachel is 6:4
Rana vs Tager is 6.5:3.5
Tager vs Ragna is 4:6
There’s no structure to this
The “tier list” is composed of a top player’s opinion on their character’s match ups. Naturally, each player may think match ups are different compared to someone else, which is why there are differences like the ones you posted.
Rose and Dan are not played a lot professionally, because characters are developed on arcade and not console. Which is why console characters are traditionally banned. I’m sure if SF4 arcade were patched with those characters, you’d see them a lot more. So far the characters have been developed mostly online, and most people simply don’t bother being serious about them because of that.
As far as BlazBlue is concerned, let’s be honest with ourselves. It’s not going to win most balanced game of the year for sure. The game is young, the roster is small, and pretty much every character is represented in tournaments thus far. However as the game evolves, I’m expect a pretty big drop off rate with anyone below A-tier. People believe TaoTaka and Bang are going to be developed to the point where they may become more competitive. Any maybe a bit of a niche group may prefer the challenge. However, tournament players are generally going to minimum work for maxium results. Especially outside of Japan. That is why you see a shitload of Balrog and Rufus players, but don’t see as many great Ryu or Viper players.
I don’t expect to ever see Tager or Hakumen win any major tournaments in this game, especially as the general knowledge base becomes more acquainted with those matchups. For right now, I enjoy using Hakumen, but I have to be honest, the only reason I ever win with him is because people don’t play the game right. Kind of how Zangief looked so fucking beastly in the early days of SFIV until people started to learn how to fight him. The difference is, I can conceivably win a tournament with Zangief. I’ll never win a tournament with Hakumen if decent players are there.
But I like BlazeBlu. Balance isn’t everything. MVC2 wasn’t balanced in anyone’s wildest imagination, but it was always a great competitive game, because the infinite amount of tactics and mindgames at higher level. BlazBlue can still be fun if high level matches are pretty interesting. However, we all know that we can compare BlazBlue to CVS1. It’s just the beginning of a grander and better fleshed out game. So I don’t expect it’s competitive life to be long, because it’s obvious this is just a first effort, and we know how those normally go.
hm… I can see BB competitive play going pretty far. It’s not like ggxxac is really more balanced xD
GGXXAC is definitely more balanced than BlazeBlu. You probably won’t see too many tournaments won with Chip or Bridget, but it’s within the realm of possiblity. I don’t really think it’s possible to win a tournament with Tager especially if everyone at the tournament know what they’re doing. They’re bad matchups in any game, but their are matchups so bad where character’s options are completely shut down. I can’t really see what Tager can conceivably do against V-13 but get lucky. And you can’t revolve strategies around luck, and a few gimmicks. Seriously, I really do see BlazBlue balance being more akin to 3s, where top tier reign supreme, and win 80% of the time, with a few scattered good tournament placements with A-tiers. And I see anything below A-tier as just being novelty characters, just like in 3s.
XD~ did you forget Johnny? with only like, one top japanese player who makes him seem better than he is.
ggxxac has its share of free win match ups. Chipp vs dizzy.
I’m must say I’m little disappointed to hear Branh0913 post though I will admit a few things he psot are true.
Even if im not an professional player, i cant agree that the situation is as grim with low tier cast as stated.
As player do you think that so many player will aim for more results with less work? I cant stand playing such a way, maybe that’s why i will always be scrub in some ways.
I admit i do feel disappointed in Arks development decision. They say in one of their interviews that they want to rewards the players who puts in the efforts but i feel they failed in that development since the most abuse able and powerful character are easy to use who also have to be the best characters. I admit my last game session in Blazblue against noobs frustrated me and made this statement seem true.
They were able to beat me and few my friends who main the lower tier cast. We were disappointed that we lost to player who weren’t competent but it was completing appalling to us that they weren’t aware of the trick and meta games we developed. But by using the the S-A tier characters who just have an overwhelming advantaged with so many forgiving traits.
We lost simply because we were at an technical disadvantage. We had thought that our knowledge of the game and experience in fighting game would at allow us to beat the player who barely study the game at all.
In all actuality then you didn’t understand the game as much as you thought you did.
You are placing too much on the characters and not your own skill. In the right hands, no matter who you are playing, they are going to fuck shit up. Take Daigo or Justin Wong for example. I bet you they could enter a tournament and break face with Dan all god damn day because they are good players. They understand the game. They understand the match ups and they know how to capitalize on mistakes. Don’t think you can win with Hakumen? Then get better.
Bad examples. There’s only one player who makes Venom look like he’s any good. And Venom has always been upper mid in GGXX. Just too damn hard. Kind of like how there’s only one guy who makes Carl look top 6.
Chipp vs. Dizzy is just as free of a match up as v-13 vs. Tager or 'Kune vs. Hakumen.
I know, I’m just saying that both games have their share of bad match ups. One game just has less characters at the moment.
Basically, for the lower tiers to win at high levels in both games you generally have to be psychic and pulling off unsafe tricks.
Branh0913 said that "You probably won’t see too many tournaments won with Chip or Bridget, but it’s within the realm of possiblity."
That’s also true in BB for the lower tiers.