Although I’m not the one who made this claim, I do think that they’re just tricky to play against if you don’t know the character well. Trying frantically to recover against Tager while he’s running one particular combo leads to some nasty magnet-wall-bounce reset thing, for example. I don’t even know him well enough to describe what it is or how it works, but I did finally learn to not recover when I was flying back towards him after the fifth time I lost 80% of my health bar in the space of six seconds. And yeah, Tager’s supposed to be a great match-up for Lambda, but… yeah.
So here’s a theory fighter question about CP that Livewire’s finger crossing made me think of:
Now that more is known about the game and the way that changes have impacted characters, is anyone already/still planning on switching mains? That Azrael bandwagon seems to have died down a bit, but maybe it was just the Noel drive and music conversations that killed it off. I for one am definitely sticking with the flappy-flap option, regardless of updates and re-balances.
Well, I’m obviously going to keep maining Noel since I even played her when CS1 was out (and what dark times THOSE were). However, lately I’ve been thinking of picking up Mu as a sub since some of the changes and new stuff seems cool and I’m kinda friends with one of the mods of the Mu board on DL. I’m also considering subbing Azrael just to see how dumb and braindead scrubby I can be with him for shits and laughs. That being said though, if Kokonoe comes out for consoles I’ll be incredibly hard-pressed to NOT co-main her.
The changes have pretty much solidified my main choices, I don’t think I’ll be abandoning the Murakumos any time soon.
Amane’s been on my radar since day one, and I’m still planning on picking him up, even though at the moment he seems to have a few clear weaknesses that could tweaking. Azrael’s playstyle looks really cool, but being a link-based character a la Hakumen is kind of a turn-off.
Makoto will forever be my main. Not much reason to drop her either. She’s the worst in CSX and she’s still the worst in CP even though she’s a bit better. Everytime you win with her, you know you earned it (unlike some other characters). Will sub Bullet since she kinda seems the same way.
I’ll also continue to be the worst Hazama on BB. He’s just too cool to not play him.
You’re not going to get it. No balance changes this patch. Just some features and some small bugfixes.
Tager basically punishes sloppy play, so at low to mid levels of play when everyone is playing sloppily, he destroys people. Also, if you have no DP, Gadget Finger really sucks to be caught in. Tager stops being so fraudulent when you get up into mid-high levels of play.
Mu just has a couple of moves that are easy to land (air CH j.C) that lead into absolutely retarded levels of damage. It’s actually kinda like Tager’s GETB, where you’re just like “Yeah, I made one mistake and then suddenly I was dead.”
I have no intention of changing mains.
And yeah, sorry Makoto players, but I think Tsubaki is worse than Makoto in EX; Makoto doesn’t need to fill up a special bar to do real damage, and Tsubaki’s drive moves suck so badly in neutral now that she doesn’t really have any big advantages over Makoto.
Though to be fair, Tsubaki was mid tier in CS2. /mourn.
Mu actually has a few easily baitable and unsafe moves, while her Drive can be easily punished if people get too greedy throwing Steins out. Not to mention against Tager, her 6C can be canceled like mad with a Sledge.
There’s no reason for Mu to DO 6C outside of a combo though. It’s a stupid move to use in neutral, especially against Tager, so that’s not really relevant.
What are her “easily baitable and unsafe moves”? Yeah, she has a DP, but it’s no easier to bait (Harder, actually, because it’s some sort of weird superguardpoint so some safe jump setups that rely on attacks whiffing on invulnerability don’t work) and no easier to punish than any other DP, so saying “Just bait and punish her DP” is like saying “Just bait and punish Inferno Divider.” While it’s definitely something you can/should do, it’s something that you can/should do because the move is STRONG, not because it’s some sort of weakness.
Decent Mu players won’t just randomly throw out steins for you to punish either.
Edit: and anyway, none of that has anything to do with her being “fraud friendly” or not - that’s all about her ability to blow people up for simple mistakes.
Well, gee, Airk. It’s almost as if you expect most good players to just let their unsafe moves remain unsafe, and just sit on their thumbs as they hand you an easy Fatal for big damage.
This quote reminds me of Jin’s overhead. I feel sorry for him because he can’t combo after it (normally) so sometimes I almost feel like just letting go of the d-pad. Almost.
I cannot tell if this is sarcasm. Which means it probably is. but I can’t tell what it’s being sarcastic ABOUT.
And yes. Jin’s gimpy overhead is why he’s one of my least feared matchups. Jin players have to be legitimately tricky with their mixup, and most of them honestly aren’t that creative. Though it also baffles me how few of them seem to use the overhead once they HAVE the heat to combo.
Well, you seem to get in a tizzy a lot about rarely being able to “block and punish” unsafe normals, when any good player isn’t going to just going to end their blockstring with an unsafe move, ready to get Fatal Countered.
If you blocked my Mu’s C normals during my blockstring, why would I stay there and get punished when I can just Stein -> air backdash? Why would a Noel player keep mashing out blocked Drives when they could Bloom Trigger and push you out of striking range? You’ll notice a lot of good players frequently attack or escape within small gaps of the blockstring itself instead of waiting out the whole thing. Which is hard to–I know I sure can’t do it most of the time–but that’s where practice comes in.
Not sure how Jin’s overhead problem relates to this. It is kind of weird that he still has no meterless options off of it, though.
If you bait it by double jumping, what does it matter if it’s -13 on block? And the -13 is irrelevant anyway because if you block it she can just gatling to 5C, which will be safe enough. Yeah, you can bait it with a well timed double jump, just like 75% of the anti-airs in the game.
No, I get “in a tizzy” when people TELL ME to “Block and punish” things that no intelligent player would let you block and punish. Like Noel’s drives. Which is why I was getting pissy about it. The ‘advice’ people were giving was useless. The whole “Why would Noel stand there and let you punish when they can just push you away with Bloom Trigger” was exactly MY point in the whole discussion. I kept challenging people to explain why Noel’s drives were “so easy to punish” and no one ever came out with anything except vague hints that you might be able to DP her out of some of her strings if you read it or she does something wrong. So uh, grats me on apparently not making that clear enough, and grats you for missing that point. Go us.
Anyway, technically Jin can combo off his overhead meterless on a Counterhit, but I think that’s a tricky confirm, especially in netplay.
Bloom trigger is safe because it spaces a lot. She’s not at advantage. If she does that, you can rush in and do pressure. Or do you want an I win button because you blocked it?
And where exactly do I say she is at advantage, or that I want an I win button? Of course, on the flip side, while she’s not at advantage, the distance means the frame advantage you do have isn’t exactly a ticket to any sort of real pressure, because most of it is lost in closing the distance, which is why Noel players use it.
All I have ever wanted is for people to stop telling me how “easy” her drives are to punish as if all those negative frame advantage numbers ever actually had relevance in play. But instead I just get a lot of people telling me I suck.
And yeah, Tager’s supposed to be a great match-up for Lambda, but… yeah. 
And the -13 is irrelevant anyway because if you block it she can just gatling to 5C, which will be safe enough. Yeah, you can bait it with a well timed double jump, just like 75% of the anti-airs in the game.