If you want to spend that meter.After ex headstomp charge up and hit them with an ex cross up crusher.
Haven’t seen it yet myself
^ Yeah some peeps were talking about it in the video thread and the quotes thread. check it out.
yeah so whoops. forgot a bunch, so far from definitive, sorry about the misinformation to the original questioner dude.
So there’s actually one more setup that I totally forgot about. If you end a BNB with a Jab Crusher, you do not pass through your opponent and land Point Blank in front of them. I can say this for sure about Sim and Ryu, but since I’m a fucking complete goddamn moron, I’ve been ending hit confirm BNBs with either Roundhouse Scissors to push them further into the corner (Fool I was!!!) or using Fierce PC if I was closer to the corner and/or if I wanted to get in the stun and damage. EX PC to finish a round where a pixel might be left otherwise.
Instead, I should have been ending my combos with JAB Crusher for many of its godlike reasons. So If I jump in on Ryu and hit him with jumping fierce, crouching jab, standing short, crouching forward BNB then cancel into JAB Crusher instead of short scissors or anything else, then I get
1.) Jumping fierce/forward, cr.jab, standing jab, cr.forward xx Jab PC does 282/242, respectively. More damage than a scissor kick knockdown, but not as much as if you used roundhouse or fierce. Off of those however, you don’t get the followup opportunity. If your opponent blocks the followup crossup PC after the Jab PC BNB, you get 18 chip totalling 260 if you used jumping forward to start the bnb and 300 if you started with fierce.
2.) You end up with nearly prime positioning for ground meaty pressure. With scissor kicks, if you want to push the advantage aside from crossup PC’s, you have a distance to cross even though you toss them further towards the corner. With roundhouse SK, the recovery is bad and its hard to follow up on the knockdown you get from it, similar to how its tough to followup a BNB ending with fierce PC. You don’t have to move to start applying pressure. From here, you can do tic setups, frame traps, straightup short short short pressure, focus attack shenanigans and…
3.) You can do another PC with your choice of crossup or not. An immediate fierce or strong PC will crossup and if slightly delayed, will hit your opponent from the front and be safe with the double hits of fierce PC. If you get the full BNB for the 282 dmg, then do a followup crusher and land that, you get a net damage of 382 which against certain characters like Ryu amounts to a third of their health.
All in all, I don’t know why Jab PC isn’t used more, you can do everything you could off of a scissor kick knockdown, including the crossup PC followup without having to move. Only thing you don’t have time for really is a jump in, but Bison should’t be relatively grounded for the most part anyways and a techable knockdown + bison’s floaty jump usually means it can be avoided altogether, especially by Ryu.
pretty interesting write up on the lp crusher. honestly i pretty seldomly use the c.lp, st.lp, c.mkxx combo unless i landed a cross up. it indeed does give a really nice position though. after a scissor kick knockdown from combo, i usually dash in and go for a meaty st.lk to get frame advantage (then frame trap or throw or bait), c.mp to get frame advantage (then frame trap or bait), or just dash forward and do a st.lp or st.lk to bait. if they backdash, i have trouble to continue pressure tho unless i went for the meaty st.lk.
but yeah. igotta give this lp crusher a try, it does indeed sound really good (unless i know i can push them right into the corner with the scissor).
I was one of the crazy cases who used to use PC in Vanilla, moving to using it for crossup/mixup games in super was easy lol.
Yeah you do have an interesting setup going there I might have to play around with. I tend to use j.roundhouse for crossups most of the time I suck getting j.fierce to crossup by anything other than accident though if I don’t use forward, assuming your combo still works on a crossup?
I do the same thing lil.
And Stabicron, I tested in Ryu and Sim and any 5-6 bnb where you cancel low forward into jab crusher as a finisher, it will always land in front, even and especially as crossup. jumping frwd, roundhouse, fierce all work. I dunno about other characters though, but I’d be surprised if there was some that it went through and didn’t, you’d think something like that would be relatively universal but look at blanka and adon.
That’s why I was dumbfounded when I realized I FORGOT from day 1 how stoked I was with the positioning you get after a Jab Crusher in a 5-6 hit BNB. Most of my knockdowns come from shorts, but that’s why I am now dedicating myself to using cr.short, cr.short, st.short, cr.forward xx Special Move more often now until I can get it consistent outside of training mode.
The spacing for jab crusher I feel like is good enough to where I’d want to try and land it as much as possible whenever I can hit confirm. Learning the above BNB means you can do it off meaty shorts and you have quite a bit of time to see if its hitting.
If one could incorporate a more fine tuned and precise crossup game into Bison’s style then there are more possibilities for using jab crusher.
If any of you guys start using it in matches, let me know how it ends up working out for you or how you feel like your opponent reacts to being knocked down so close to you.
I’ve been posting about LP Crusher setups for months, and no one except M16 was interested!
Damn you all.
^ Sry lol. I guess I missed the memo. Been reading less in general and just kinda checking the essentials like kim’s thread, the video and matchup thread, etc. I figured though people wre using jab crusher in one way or another, I was just noting how stupid it is to have played a character so long and just now figuring out that jab crusher doesn’t pass through in certain combos. no doubt at least half the people that post here knew this like its as obvious as scissor kicks knocking down, just bringing it up again since I’m curious about it now, especially if anyone uses jab crusher successfully in their general game.
What are your thoughts on the matter? Can you link to your older posts or if not just maybe describe how/if you implement it into your game? any other setups aside from the spacing u get from the bnb?
ndr’s original post:
Crossup is character specific, but I never tested against all the characters. I do practice it in training mode though.
haha nice, i missed your posts too. i guess that’s the nature of forums when you dont keep up with everything =p
Are you referring to the cross-up after the jab PC knockdown being character specific? I’ve been testing this in matches. I certainly like the fact you can apply meaty pressure but a lot of the time if I tried to follow-up with a HP Crusher it didn’t cross up. I’m not sure whether I’m doing it too late or it doesn’t work for some characters.
( I was using it in the combo c.jab, st.jab, st.short, c.forward xx LP Crusher. )
I double tap my HP Psycho to get it out on the first possible frame after I recover from LP Psycho.
Ok thanks I’ll try that out.
Hm, just learned while playing casuals the other day that cr. mp-cr. lk can combo. Not sure how useful it is (i did: neutral jump HK, Cr mp, cr, lk, sk) but it made me and my opponent a little confused lol
Very spacing dependent, but yea … it’s a super easy link, too. 4f, I think. c.MP c.MK is generally better, though.
I use cr.mp , cr.lk a fair bit after jump-ins. It is a lot easier than cr.mp , cr.mk.
I saw Kim combo into cr.mp after a st.lp I believe. I’m finding it pretty tricky so far but trying to practice using it.
This works, but it’s 1f. It looks badass combo’d into a PC, but it’s not the most practical link.
Which ultra should I use against T. Hawk? I’ve been using NMB since I find that I can land j.mpx2 fairly often, and if it’s not at the apex U2 will not juggle them. Also U2 doesn’t seem to punish condor dive unless they do it from the apex, which good t. hawks won’t do.
I’ve never had a problem punishing Condor Dive with U2 … I’m pretty sure the recovery is the same on block regardless of where they do it from. (Unless you’re talking about using it on reaction instead of on block.)
Nevertheless, it seems you can already punish condor dive with PC, SK or cr.HK. U1 does 60ish damage more than U2, and you can connect it after j.MPx2 easier than U2. You need the extra damage against t. hawk, I find.