Birdie Q&A Thread: Ask All Your Questions Here

[nom]

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[Bdizzle2700]

• I generally try to play a more zoning Birdie, taking advantage of his variety of long normals, decent anti-airs, armor on a few of his moves and V-Skills/specials helping. Is this a viable way to play him?
• That said this could be me as a player but I feel like I’m having trouble actually applying real pressure with him especially at close range. As far as close range options it seems st.LK is his best bet for linking, block strings, small combos or sometimes going into LK Chain Dive. Of course there’s still the occasional throw or command throw if they blocking. Besides those and maybe whiff punishing with a faster normal like st.LP/MP what can I do to better to apply pressure?
• I’ve been trying to find a use for LK and MK Hanging Chain. HK is good for anti-air and EX is good for projectile invul. However with LK and MK it’s super easy to block and get punished or at least give them free access to get closer to you (which is bad because you have no invul). As far as pressuring from the same range you can use like a st.MK or st.HP.
• Who are some notable good Birdie players? (whether online or IRL, preferrably IRL and I can watch videos of them)

*ideally yes. Although i would say it depends on the match up. Characters or players who wanna run away and zone i try to get them to the corner and bully with normals. But characters who wanna come it i use those tools to keep them out. So really its just if you use it for offence or defence.
*for me i find his pressure weird. He has better midrange pressure. Being inside that s.mp l, s.mk range where their lights dont reach and their mediums might be too slow to counter. Thats how it feels with him to pressure.
*lk and mk chain is really for good projectile reads. Ill use lk chain for someone like sim or nash where i would prefer them up close so theu cant run but use mk chain for like ryu and ken where i dont wanna compete up close and they get pushed to a corner and i can compete there. Chains arnt as useful for like karin and mikas. Ex chain is pretty aite lol. Decent trip gaurd or wiff punisher.
*and im not sure. So i cant answer that one.

[RashidMX]

In the UltraChen tuesday show, James mentioned that Birdie was a “defensive grappler”. Can someone explain to me what that means? I don’t think I’ve seen anyone play Birdie like a grappler at all, really. The gameplan for most Birdies (like Itazan, for example) seems to be to go in with crossup j.mp, tick into revenger, poke with s.mk, whiff punish with s.mp, that kind of thing. Sure, sometimes he throws the can, but he’s always walking in behind it, not staying back.

I’m wondering if how I’m playing Birdie is wrong - I play more like an aggressive zoner, bulldogging all the time, trying to get into s.mk / s.mp range, which is also lk/mk/ex revenger range, and also the range where I can react with ex. bull horn. Always going in - I can’t imagine any benefit to staying back and eating donuts/throwing bananas. Frankly, I play him like I used to play Rose - always at s.mk range threatening walk in throw/crossup, ready for c.hp antiair, space the slide to be safe, etc.

You should have seen how a turtling Birdie plays. Almost impossible to break thru the defense. Great pokes, tricky moves and baits, minimum effort maximum returns. Cant jump him, cant keep too stationary or predictable, what we really got close we have to worry about his 5f command grab. And how many armoured moves does he pack in his list?

[RashidMX]

I’ve been having trouble following up a cr.MP anti air. I usually eat a fast jab or a dp to the face. What are my options after a cr.MP anti air?

I have gotten into a mixup city each time I get cr mp by a birdie. He has fr advantage and can terrorize with command grab or throw or bait punish with normals when I try to escape. All in his favor. And that cr mp hits crossups too. Or he can follow up with a jp mp. Also incredible hitbox especially when we are so tight together, likelihood of my AA normals to whiff is high.

[RashidMX]

I’ve been having trouble following up a cr.MP anti air. I usually eat a fast jab or a dp to the face. What are my options after a cr.MP anti air?

HP Killing Head, All light normals, normal throw, overhead, meaty sHK (if blocked meaty, you can go for a command throw or sLK/sLP since it’ll be +2 on block),

I had thought s.HK was 0 on block? It is according to the frame data.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1976rt8B91PqVCeYJAmcnW1uwVJ0H03QJtV-dJC5ohL8/htmlview?sle=true

Am I missing something?

Thats why he said meaty. Meaty makes a lot of unsafe moves safe.

[RashidMX]

So… who is Birdie’s worst matchup right now?

[metrokard]

my opinion Laura i would say mika is another bad one for him but everyone else i think hes even or beats.

[Korbidon]

Birdies worst match is Mika. Mika can just run through you.

[Wizarus]

A good Fang player is a terrible matchup. Keeps you away for the majority of the match, and if you let him slip away once, you just lost. Armor is useless, Revenger can be reacted to, non EX chains too slow, can takes way too long to deploy, cant jump over projectiles.

[nom]

Can someone please tell me how to unsubscribe from this thread?

[Bdizzle2700]

A good Fang player is a terrible matchup. Keeps you away for the majority of the match, and if you let him slip away once, you just lost. Armor is useless, Revenger can be reacted to, non EX chains too slow, can takes way too long to deploy, cant jump over projectiles.

I pretty much agree. Gotta play on point to lock him down. Even then its ridiculous.

[T20thoughts]

@nom Uh. You just click on the star next to the thread so the star’s gone. Kinda the wrong thread to ask about that, but hey.

[NowItsAngeTime]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZr4XgOm4a0

I’m not sure if this is the place to ask but can someone critique this small set of me playing vs a Ken? Thanks.

[Wizarus]

Not the best Birdie player at all, but Cr MP is your friend, arguably the best AA normal in the game. Ken pretty much jumping at you for free.

[Fr0st_Blade]

In order of what I saw:

1. Stop moving backwards. This is one of the most important things to learn with Birdie. Move FORWARD. Every step you move backwards, you get closer to losing the match.
2. Reduce your jumping. You don’t have to completely eliminate it, but you jumped way too much
3. Stop using normal chain so much.
4. For future reference, don’t v reversal jumpins. You won’t get punished at a low level, but I’m pretty sure every character gets a full throw punish for free.
5. Be more patient. It looks like you took a ton of damage because you didn’t want to just sit there and block for a bit. You lost game two because you just kept doing random specials?
6. Cr. mp antiair more.

I’m a lot better at telling people what they did wrong than what they SHOULD be doing, but keep the following points in mind (and kinda reiterates the main points from above):

1. DO walk forward as much as possible so that you push your opponent BACK towards THEIR corner.
2. DO anti-air as many jumpins as you can. This alone can probably get you to around Gold.
3. DO work on your st. lk, st. lp xx lp bullhead confirm.
4. DO be more patient and incorporate cr. lp if you need a fast normal to create space.

[NowItsAngeTime]

thanks for the advice!

[NowItsAngeTime]

Sorry for the double post.

More Birdie related questions:

[list]
[] I feel like the most I struggle with in matches is when an opponent gets close in on me. I think this is one of Birdie’s Weaknesses but what are some options Birdie has when an opponent is close in on you?
[] Another problem I have is when I try to hit the opponent with a mid range normal (st.MP, st.MK, etc) but they jump in at almost the same time and I dont have enough time to anti-air or block so I get bopped. Im tying to think of better solutions. Maybe st.LP/cr.LP more often since it has less recovery than the others
[] I’m trying to find the best times to activate V-Trigger outside combos. I’ve seen common ways to do it is on a Bull Head but are there any other common/viable/better ways to do it? Maybe raw?
[] Since Birdie’s V-Reversal is kinda slow but one of his few defensive options, is it best to only use it when they are doing block strings on you?
[] If I get into an air-to-air fight whats generally his best attack? By air-to-air I mean we jump right around the same time. I know I cant reallly use heavy moves because they have super big startup.
[] Birdie has a nice mix of jump in attacks. j.MK seems good for the vertical range, j.HK for the horizontal range, j.MP for crossups and maybe the occassional jump in, and j.HP for slightly less startup than HK. WHat should be the general go to for jump-ins?
[] How often I should I use Bull Horn? For the most part it doesnt seem worth to save charge since all the properties of Bull Horn can be used more in other moves. (faster anti-air in cr.MP, various other ways to deal with projectiles, meterless armor in f.HP)
[] I guess this could be a more general question, but what’s the best way in using his Crush Counter normals (st.HK, f.HP) to get CCs? Do you have to predict the opponent will throw out a normal that one of those attack will out prioritize or catch them whiffing on recovery or startup?
[] How often should I abuse added armor on V-Triggered EX Bull Head? Similarly is it viable to use non-EX V-Triggered Bull Head to get in since it’s more safe on block?
[] Let’s say you anti-air with cr.MP, once they land once a good thing to do? Hold back and block to see what they do? or try to hit them with a normal or mixup?
[/list]

[Fr0st_Blade]

Sorry for the double post.

More Birdie related questions:

[list]
[*] I feel like the most I struggle with in matches is when an opponent gets close in on me. I think this is one of Birdie’s Weaknesses but what are some options Birdie has when an opponent is close in on you?

Wait, v-reversal, st. lk, cr. lp are options you have. You can also guess ex bullhorn or guess ex command grab. Birdie sucks when the opponent is close in, so avoid at all costs.

[*] Another problem I have is when I try to hit the opponent with a mid range normal (st.MP, st.MK, etc) but they jump in at almost the same time and I dont have enough time to anti-air or block so I get bopped. Im tying to think of better solutions. Maybe st.LP/cr.LP more often since it has less recovery than the others

If you do a medium move and they jump, you just have to block. Those moves are basically fireballs so if they jump preemptively, you’ll get bopped. If they jump a lot, don’t stick out as many buttons. If you want to stick out buttons but also have time to block, consider cr. lp to create space. St. lp is good in certain situations.

[*] I’m trying to find the best times to activate V-Trigger outside combos. I’ve seen common ways to do it is on a Bull Head but are there any other common/viable/better ways to do it? Maybe raw?

It’s bad to do raw because of heavy recovery frames. You can probably do it full screen though if you’re desperate for it. There are several options to cancel into it though. I usually try to touch them with st. lp or st. mp and then cancel into bullhead xx v trigger.

[*] Since Birdie’s V-Reversal is kinda slow but one of his few defensive options, is it best to only use it when they are doing block strings on you?

Generally speaking, it’s best only to do against safe or + specials, or heavy attacks (sometimes mediums). At lower levels, you can probably get away with it against someone who mashes jabs or on jumpins.

[*] If I get into an air-to-air fight whats generally his best attack? By air-to-air I mean we jump right around the same time. I know I cant reallly use heavy moves because they have super big startup.

Not sure about this. I think j. lp or j. lk might be the best air to air but I always do j. mp even though it gets beat quite a bit.

[*] Birdie has a nice mix of jump in attacks. j.MK seems good for the vertical range, j.HK for the horizontal range, j.MP for crossups and maybe the occassional jump in, and j.HP for slightly less startup than HK. WHat should be the general go to for jump-ins?

J. mp if I think the opponent could move under me, j. mk to make it harder to anti-air, j. hk for stun combos or hard jumpins. I think j. hp would be good to make certain anti-airs whiff and j. lp seems to have a good hitbox. Not sure what to do with j. lk.

[*] How often I should I use Bull Horn? For the most part it doesnt seem worth to save charge since all the properties of Bull Horn can be used more in other moves. (faster anti-air in cr.MP, various other ways to deal with projectiles, meterless armor in f.HP)

I don’t use it that often, but it’s supposed to be good against projectiles. I’ve used it in footsies before and it hits hard as a whiff punish.

[*] I guess this could be a more general question, but what’s the best way in using his Crush Counter normals (st.HK, f.HP) to get CCs? Do you have to predict the opponent will throw out a normal that one of those attack will out prioritize or catch them whiffing on recovery or startup?

Only times I use it besides to punish a DP are on opponent’s wakeup and after cr. mp. Occasionally I’ll use it in footsies (like against characters that want to dash in).

[*] How often should I abuse added armor on V-Triggered EX Bull Head? Similarly is it viable to use non-EX V-Triggered Bull Head to get in since it’s more safe on block?

I do it quite a bit. People don’t really know how to punish it so I abuse them until I play someone who knows how to deal with it.

[*] Let’s say you anti-air with cr.MP, once they land once a good thing to do? Hold back and block to see what they do? or try to hit them with a normal or mixup?

After cr. mp, st. hk -OR- command grab. You can also st. lk, throw, or bull revenger.
[/list]

Answered under each point.

[IM_Amazon]

[list]
[] I’m trying to find the best times to activate V-Trigger outside combos. I’ve seen common ways to do it is on a Bull Head but are there any other common/viable/better ways to do it? Maybe raw?
[] Since Birdie’s V-Reversal is kinda slow but one of his few defensive options, is it best to only use it when they are doing block strings on you?
[] I guess this could be a more general question, but what’s the best way in using his Crush Counter normals (st.HK, f.HP) to get CCs? Do you have to predict the opponent will throw out a normal that one of those attack will out prioritize or catch them whiffing on recovery or startup?
[] How often should I abuse added armor on V-Triggered EX Bull Head? Similarly is it viable to use non-EX V-Triggered Bull Head to get in since it’s more safe on block?
[*] Let’s say you anti-air with cr.MP, once they land once a good thing to do? Hold back and block to see what they do? or try to hit them with a normal or mixup?
[/list]

1.) EX Bullhead xx VT is very plus on block if you cancel the first hit. Not saying you should YOLO headbutt everything, but if the opponent likes to hit buttons you can combo them, and if they block you’re at advantage. It’s saved my bacon a couple of times.

2.) Certain blockstrings and tick throws are too plus for V-Reversal to work. I tend to use it as a deterrent to big meaties (like Ryu’s 4HK, Alex’s 6HP, etc.).

3.) Landing st.HK raw is tricky–at longer ranges the combo options are slim, and if they jump you’re hooped. 6HP, in my experience, is tough to get a CC with, but I don’t really use it for that anyway. You can land st.HK after several situations, like after a forward throw, after CA, after an anti-air cr.MP, after a LK Hanging Chain, or possibly as a meaty after Bullhorn. So landing it raw is dicey, but he’s given lots of situations to make them hold it.

4.) Play it by ear. Folks who hit buttons receive a faceful of scalp, folks who block often will murder your ass. VT Bullheads are safer, but not safe. Some stuff can and will still punish you (guys like Bison still get scary combos), so don’t mess around.

5.) The basic arrangement is st.HK to blow up buttons/throw, Killing Head to blow up blocking (normal throws for positioning), or block to blow up reversals. After an air-to-air situation your st.LK is your best button to challenge them.

[Fr0st_Blade]

3.) Landing st.HK raw is tricky–at longer ranges the combo options are slim, and if they jump you’re hooped. 6HP, in my experience, is tough to get a CC with, but I don’t really use it for that anyway. You can land st.HK after several situations, like after a forward throw, after CA, after an anti-air cr.MP, after a LK Hanging Chain, or possibly as a meaty after Bullhorn. So landing it raw is dicey, but he’s given lots of situations to make them hold it.

This is all theory as I don’t have time to test it, but I was thinking after long range crush counter, the different chains can be useful. Lk for a meaty setup, mk to push them away (maybe set up a v skill?).