Hey guys, I was just musing on some theory craft after coming back from a tournament in San Diego and was curious as to what my fellow Dok players might consider the best teams for MODOK.
I personally feel like there are two categories for this:
Modok with a shell that completely covers MODOK’s needs on point.
I personally feel this category basically involves a beam that also helps him combo into his wallbounce (pretty much all beams excluding Disruptor with honorable mention to task arrows), and another assist that helps extend combos while controlling vertical space (which is pretty much Missiles, Jam Session and Vajra.)
Honorable mention goes to Dok/Missiles/Cold star for Doom ammy Shenanigans, and Dok/Missiles/Jam Session. Both of these teams lack assists that really help Modok move forward, but give him a lot of utility.
Top tier shells that Modok can fit with. What I find interesting about these teams is that often they wind up being worse versions of other top tier teams, but I am not entirely sure if the top tier shells outweigh teams from the previous category despite giving MODOK fewer options.
With an Honorable Mention to Dok/x/Drones teams where the second character can pretty much be any top tier character that helps MODOK extend his combos.
For optimal point MODOK teams, I look for multiple things that greatly alter MODOK’s effectiveness as a character when put together. This includes:
building at least 2 meters off any clean hit given both assists
breaking 1,000k off a throw given both assists for 2 meters that works on all characters
jamming bomb combos with both assists anywhere on screen
both assists let you get a wallbounce in after a knockdown in the corner
both assists aid with the unblockable reset
both assists aid with incoming unblockable setups
both assists are useful in neutral; at least one of them helps cover the airspace and at least one of them helps keep opponents off Dok
And team wise:
the 2nd character can utilize MODOK’s assist well
the 2nd character DHCs to and from MODOK nicely
the 2nd character is a good point character given momentum and assist backing, and has good incoming mixups
Given this, I think that the best MODOK teams will consist mostly of Dok/2nd point/missiles, and very few cases with Dok/missiles/“main” assist. Missiles will augment Dok’s neutral in pretty much every way except what is perhaps the most important facet: his [in]ability to keep rushdown oriented characters away quickly. Thus, a kind of get of me assist is preferable, given that also fulfills the list above. The natural fits that I see are Lariat and Eye. Haggar has great incoming setups if you need to DHC in. Strange works well with blaster and missiles in neutral and gives practically guaranteed unblockables if you DHC him in for the kill in the corner. Eye assist works especially well because it also acts as a lockdown assist and persists for a good amount of time, making it great for screen control. I feel that Dok/Strange (eye)/Doom is one of the best MODOK teams, and that it could very well be an endgame team once perfected. That’s why I main it.
I don’t think that MODOK needs a beam assist, at least not as much as he needs a get off me assist of some sort. Characters like Wolverine backed by plasma beam will maul MODOK without a get off me assist.
I do also like Dok/Dorm (dark hole)/Doom and Dok/Morrigan (shadow blade)/Doom. Dorm fulfills pretty much the same role as Strange. Morrigan gives you an invincible alpha counter that you can combo off of and lets you get out of incoming setups for 3 bars if Dok dies.
Dok/Mag/Doom is optimized for combo synergy. I love it, and it’s a very good team, but hyper grav isn’t a great neutral assist and I don’t think the optimal MODOK team has Dok second with his potential to 300% teams and his start of round advantage.
And I just want to say, I absolutely do not understand the point/Dok/Sentinel shell in terms of having an optimal team. MODOK gets nothing combo wise with only drones, and I don’t think they are that good of a neutral assist for Dok.
Overall, I do agree that most of the teams you’ve listed are more or less the best Dok teams. I would add Dok/Haggar/Doom and Dok/Deadpool/Doom.
I’ve personally found that Plasma beam functions like a get off me assist due to how far it comes out behind modok and how far it pushes people away on hit or block. I really don’t see Lariat as being all that important in the end game of high tier play because it is more defensive, while having a beam lets MODOK move forward while directly effecting your opponents assist calls as well. Being more proactive with zoning characters out seems much stronger in the long run compared to having an assist for when characters get in.
I also don’t really find Drones all that amazing in the end game outside of Dok/Mag/Drones, but I do think it is potent enough to mention. In general, I don’t see why one would pick Drones over missiles for modok, because Dok/Mag/Drones is basically just a worse version of Dok/Mag/Missiles.
I agree that you want to be proactive with zoning characters with an assist that will let you do so, but I still feel like optimal Dok teams need that get off me assist or you’ll simply get mauled. Assists that perform both functions would be best, and I think Eye does just that. Perhaps Repulsor Blast would work well for this purpose too. I haven’t tried out plasma beam, or any beam besides Bolts, but I’m not entirely convinced that beams are good enough to keep opponents out (though I do see that potential more in plasma beam over the other beams).
With Eye, I can get control of the neutral game quickly and put out an L bomb or barrier. Then those cover missiles, which I can use to zone or get in, and at least get more bombs/barriers out. The opponent’s assists aren’t a problem with an Eye out, because I can just use L blaster and the point character can’t punish me (Eye has a ton of durability as an assist too). Getting an Eye out is rarely a problem.
When I think of approaching the endgame in general, I like to assume there is minimal human error involved. Given this, I see two types of teams that will emerge. The first is the teams that will 300% on any touch while also having great neutral. Preferably, to achieve this 300%, no TACs will be needed. The other type of team is the zoning teams that simply dominate the neutral. But are there teams that fit both of these categories? Yes, and I think that teams like Dok/Strange/Doom will fit both types. I don’t see other really great zoning characters like Morrigan or Joe getting guaranteed hits on incoming, though I think they’ll both still be relevant (more so Morrigan). So, for this hypothetical endgame, the teams I see will look like: Viper/Dante/Strider, Firebrand/Dorm/Doom, Dok/Strange/Doom, Dok/Morrigan/Doom, and point Vergil and Wolverine teams that are designed to maul. Vergil anchor teams will certainly fall off, and the heavies will be rarely seen. What I like about Dok/Strange/Doom so much is that I know I can win once I get the first hit, and since the team is so efficient with it’s resources, I can spend everything on getting the first hit.
I actually have my doubts about MODOK being able to truly 300% teams. Because his unblockables come from a precisely timed High/Low and not an unblockable hit like Firebrand, Viper or Taskmaster, It feels too up to chance on how the opponent chooses to pushblock the setup. Maybe I’m just not good enough to do it, but that is my impression after having tried to make a team for that sort of game plan. That being said, just because it isn’t guaranteed doesn’t mean it isn’t still useful.
Yeah, getting the unblockables to hit perfectly is pretty hard due to pushblocking, but there are ways to shut down attempts to escape the unblockable, notably air grabs (pushblock guard breaks), j.L (for air dashes away), and delaying the lockdown assist. The best setup I have for it is Strange’s TK Eye, hard tag to Dok, call Eye assist, unblockable.
What about Magneto/MODOK/Sentinel? Drones still works, but it’s just not as good as having missiles.
Personally think that MODOK’s barrier assist isn’t as useful as his beam/bomb assist at the moment. I also believe it’s the slowest of the 3 assist MODOK has, and the most difficult to keep safe. Not to mention that I’m not sure crossover counters work well with MODOK’s barrier. It’s hard to make it use out of unless you are fighting Morrigan, firefights, or use Strider’s Orbs. A lot of teleport character benefit from MODOK’s beam assist, and it’s not too bad in neutral scenarios. MODOK’s bomb is fulfill the role of MODOK’s barrier assist better in IMO. Haggar/Captain America/ Hulk/etc can use the bomb to control the opponent’s actions pretty well. Also the fact that bomb’s immune to all projectiles and OTG properties makes it useful.
I found a lot of success with Dorm backed up by MODOK’s beam, and same thing with Strider. You do some pretty nasty teleport incoming setups with MODOK’s beam, even resets. Haggar+MODOK’s bomb work pretty well due to how much space Haggar’s controls, and how he can combo of the bomb easily.
Some of the optimize teams with MODOK assists should be like.
The biggest difference is probably that Dorm provides you with much safer DHCs. Both teams are very similar, but I like to keep both in practice depending on the match up.
Benefits of Dok/Strange/Doom:
HPB into SoV into XF is easier than HPB into XF to for kills on the point character or for 2 for 1 situations
alpha counter into Strange, air SoV, into XF is a nice option when Dok is being pressured
killing with SoV in the corner, into TK Eye, into hard tag into Dok sets up a great opportunity for an incoming unblockable
you can raw tag into Strange after Dok’s wallbounce in the corner, then TAC into Dok
Eye gives incoming unblockable attempts and great space control in neutral
Bolts gives Dok fullscreen pressure
Benefits of Dok/Dorm/Doom:
safer DHCs
DHCs to chaotic flame is nicer for assist punishes
chaotic flame has more durability than SoV (you can punish Vergil’s Spiral Swords with HBR into chaotic flame, but not SoV)
DHCs from Dorm to Dok work out nicely (even though DHCs from Strange to Dok aren’t good, Strange really doesn’t need it with his meter build and damage output)
Dark Hole gives incoming unblockable attempts, and if you cause the opponent to block a normal on the ground, you can always get them to block Dark Hole on the ground (unlike Eye, since Dark Hole has farther reach). Thus, you’ll always get a chance at an unblockable or at least a mixup
And @Caveman, I think Jam Session works well with MODOK, but I don’t think the optimal MODOK team will have Dante on it. Dok/Doom(missiles or beam)/Dante is pretty good though.
I think it’s just because people think missles is does everything for MODOK. I don’t think Jam Session is bad for MODOK. It can definately work with MODOK, if somebody has a good Dante.
MODOK/Strange/Doom
Advantages
MODOK’s beam super>Strange’s dp super for happy birthday combos
-Gives all of MODOK’s prefered assists.
Strange can use his flame of the faltine pretty easily with MODOK.
-One of the stronger zoner teams because it has MODOK’s best assists.
Mixups for MODOK due to bolt making people crouch
-Eye of the agamotto with Strange gives MODOK incoming mixup. You can setup a eye out and raw tag back to MODOK.
Doctor Strange’s crossover counter>SOV, underrated defensive option for MODOK.
Good triple DHCs for combos (HBR>SOV>Sphere Frame is a lot of damage)
Disadvantages
Strange is vulnerable to incoming mixups if MODOK dies. Thus a snowballl effect can happen with this team, so it’s fragile.
Kind of difficult comeback with Strange/Doom.
Strange’s DHC aren’t very safe. MODOK is pretty safe, but if he needs to tag out, he will have to use TACs/Raw tag.
You need Doom’s DHC, which means you need to spend 3 bars to keep MODOK completley safe if you uses a grab super.
You have to be smart on when to use X-factor.
MODOK/Dorm/Doom is more solid combination, BUT MODOK doesn’t get the best support that he would need.
Advantages
Dorm/Doom is a strong shell that can do well with any character in game.
Safe DHCS because of Dorm.
-Dorm/MODOK have strong DHC combos.
-Dorm’s teleport+MODOK’s beam provides strong incoming mixups, resets, and zoning.
Stalking Flare setups with MODOK can be nasty because you can setup unblockables or guard breaks
Dark Hole is great for MODOK’s unblockables
Disadvantages
-Doesn’t provide MODOK two assists that he wants in a match.
-Dorm assists aren’t good as Strange in a netrual game.
Dorm’s XF happy birthday combos aren’t as consistent as it is with Doctor Strange.
-Dark Hole goesn’t give MODOK mixups as good as you could have with mixups
Dorm’s TACs aren’t as damaging as you could make Doctor Strange.
Zoning in this team is good, but not as good as it could be with MODOK/Strange/Doom.
You definitely want to be using the Quick Work assist for unblockable setups, immunity towards HSD in combos, and the invincible crossover counter. As for MODOK’s assist, I’d probably go with beam or barrier. Beam for teleport mixups, barrier to help fight other zoning characters.
Dorm’s TAC infinite isn’t easy from what I hear though, so I doubt it being worthwhile.
I’d say the strongest MODOK team without him on point is probably Mags/Dok/Doom. Viper/Dok/Doom is pretty similar to that team in terms of damage output and corner carry too. I’m at least convinced that it’d take the form of point character/Dok/missiles.
Viper/Dok/Vajra, Zero/Dok/Missiles and Spencer/Dok/Missiles are also some of the top teams that I could think of that put Dok second. All using Dok’s beam assist.
Been playing vergil on one of my other teams and thinking thst modok vergil doom might be a pretty sokid shell. Rapid slash assist only helps in combos but can put people full screen, plus u can dhc into swords for ssfe dhc or just for that added damage. I might mess with that for a bit.
Ive been pretty faithful with dok strange doom. Even tho my strange is ass