Some Ken specific tech, if already talked about disregard.
If a Ken likes mashing DP (strong or fierce in particular) after a blocked jump in use your favorite jump in, roundhouse.
You will get tagged with one hit and he will go up for you to punish. Great trade for Bison.
Straight up trades with light DP. EX DP beats this trap clean.
Also works on Akuma.
Ibuki has a weaker mid range game versus bison. Close the distance and pressure bison on top.
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Who are Bisons bad matchups?
Guile
Sagat
Chun Li
Seth
Yun
Zangief
Are these considered bad matchups?
Sagat really isn’t a bad matchup. Chun isn’t terrible.
Honda, Cammy and Abel are bad IMO.
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/5418/tierlistfinal.png
Probably Hawk and Hakan too, but I don’t know personally.
Abel is pretty bad. Thanks for the list
Guile is Bison’s undisputed worst match up. Bison simply can not get in and can’t not play defensive.
Honda is almost as bad. Honda has more health, more damage, jumps in that are difficult to AA, better air to air, a great mix up when he gets in, safe specials with better priority and a really powerful defense that makes mounting comebacks virtually impossible.
Chun-Li, isn’t too bad but she has the edge. Better footsies, better focus attack, throw range, mix up game, sweep that beats Scissor Kick, reasonable zoning game, dominate air game and slightly better damage output.
Zangief is tough but not in the same league as Guile or Honda imo, has more health, better damage, scary corner pressure and jumps in that cannot be consistently anti aired.
Seth I’m not sure about. He does have advantages He can’t not be anti aired. Dominates air to air. Has a scary vortex. Good option selects and punishes for Bison’s reversals.
Yun, I have no opinion on.
Cammy, I’m not sure on, either. Her advantages are she can’t be consistently anti aired, extremely strong oki game, slightly better air to air… Better damage output.
Abel scares me. He has difficulty getting in without meter, but that is offset by better meter building moves. One knockdown can be fatal for Bison. One block step kick can be fatal. Has good punishes for Bison’s reversals too.
Sagat feels to me to be slightly in his favor. I think Bison narrowly wins this match up until Sagat gets Ultra then I think it strongly favors Sagat.
I pretty much agree with everyones choices. However I think Chun Bison is 6-4 Chun simply because she is better in many departments as mentioned but also because she has better comeback factor with the use of U2 off a cr.lk. You must AA her or face dealing with whether she does one or 2 hits off a j.hp or goes straight into empty jump low, however you can’t really go air to air against her to AA so you have to rely on inconsistent st.rh or cr.hp.
I HATE the Abel MU with a passion. One of my biggest gripes is how I feel at a disadvantage off a blocked lk scissor so I’m reduced to playing very very dry and hoping he doesn’t land or make me block a step kick. I feel like you can’t play aggressively against a strong Abel because even if you knock him down or land a few hits all he needs is that one stepkick or EX CoD FADC and you’re in trouble.
Hakan is actually really tricky for Bison in my opinion. His normals when oiled are superior to Bisons and cover more ground which is a pretty weird feeling. If you combine that with U2 you have no real pressure game on his wakeup (outside of the corner). You also have the fact that our st.mk can be easily focus absorbed into a combo and st.hk isn’t that useful against hakans hitbox. He has punishes for EX PC and OS’s covered if you have no meter. In short, this MU can be frustrating for numerous reasons.
Oilkan is horrible. His mobility is crazy and the combo out of focus means poking him is dangerous as he can effectively hit-punish you. He has brilliant mixups after a slide knockdown too. Good job there aren’t that many out there really but it does make it hard when you come across a good one.
Yeah UItraDavid posted in the main balance thread in SF forum that he thinks Hakan wins 7-3. I’ve never played a good Hakan so I wouldn’t know. He reckon Bison’s best shot was to lame out OilKan and then abuse DryKan. Still can’t be as bad as Guile.
Someone else posted that Gagapa plays both characters and felt it was marginal advantage Bison.
I don’t know about that marginal advantage, but that’s Gagapa, he’s killer!
Ugh some days it seems like DeeJay has better buttons than Bison does. Knee shot and slide especially, can’t seem to do much about it Makoto as well
Thinking back on it I am wondering if that has more to do with online than anything considering the same people tried to use Guile on me, had enough points on him to make me think they have a slight idea on how to use him which is all you need against Bison and lost to me two times out of three. Would still love to know a decent counter to knee shot and slide though, or the more common situation: lowest height knee shot into three lights block string to lowest height knee shot again which keeps repeating and moving him forward the entire time.
It’s a 6 - 4 in Bison’s favour. The whole idea with OilKan, is to get him dry, then corner him which is obvious. Now the problem with OilKan is to keep him busy with block stuns while spacing him out with timed normals. As you are doing this, the Kan player is going to need to re-up. The best thing for the Hakan player to do is to start FAing with Oil or to apply his own pressure. But as long as you don’t jump-in and you keep the player in check with punishes off Hakan’s specials, you are good to go for the rest of the match.
Extras on this match-up. Hakan has probably the shittest jump range in the game, or he has a fat ass. If you activate U2 on a jumping Hakan, you can still catch him at this highest point. I did this to a Kan player during casuals. I laughed for the next five games. If Hakan gets a knockdown on Bison, and ends up re-uping oil infront of you, you can punish him on your wake up because of the recovery of oil shower. From mid to full screen, use a RH. Sc. Kick, from up close, start with a Cr.Short into any combo.
Anyone mind going through the bison oni matchup? I wanted input on both sides.
Oni gets destroyed at midrange with pokes, his normals at that range are no match for Bison’s. His fireball is ass and one of the easiest ones to deal with so long range is pretty much out.
Oni’s only hope is getting some hits when he’s close enough to combo to a LK slash xx FADC combo. Then Oni’s damage potential might make the difference since Bison’s ability to come back from a life deficit is crap.
Just be aware of onis gimmicks also :p.
btw against Abel you can throw after blocked step kick if he does anything except normal tornado throw which leads to a nice setup
Question about fighting Boxer: I’ve been noticing that most bnbs tend to whiff an attack part of the way through, especially after a crossup. His hurtbox seems to be a bit farther back than other characters or something. Which bnbs have you guys been using for hitconfirming without whiffing against him?
Against Rog, cr.mk will whiff after a crossup. You can do cr.lp st.lk st.lk xx mk scissors instead. You can also go for crossup j.hk and land close hp cr.lk xx mk scissors.
You may be able to do cr.lp close lp cr.mp, but I believe it’s inconsistent.
How do you punish/avoid Hakans lp lp command grab with no meter?
You mean his tick command grab? Like, he puts you in a block string and then grabs you during it?
If he’s oiled, it’s a pretty dangerous match for Bison because his tick grabs are so good and his block strings punish you for jumping. You can’t (and shouldn’t) hold up, because he can tag you with a jab and confirm into a slide, which lets him oil up or safe jump. Your best bet is to try a back dash or teleport back, which will avoid the grab, but if you get predictable he can punish that with a slide, oil dive, or super. Another option is to do a regular Devil Reverse, which doesn’t have prejump frames, so if he jabs you’ll get reset and if he grabs you will avoid it. But the reset leaves you in that dangerous range, still, so be prepared to teleport or backdash.
Oiled Halan is at an advantage at poke range and up close in this match, because he can combo off a level 1 focus through your pokes and his tick grabs are very dangerous, so it’s important to whiff s.lk and punish whiffed focuses enough that he runs out of oil and you can corner him, where scissor pressure is extremely effective against Hakan. If he is really focus happy, try to learn safe ranges for lp PC and use that to catch occasional focus attempts, maybe, but that is risky.