Oh right… Shit, I keep forgetting Gouken. That actually proves my point though. How many times have you eaten backthrow into Ultra? Do you really think it’s fair to not tech a throw and lose 500 damage for it? Honestly, a bunch of players as well as Capcom didn’t so they nerfed it. He is the only character that can do it outside of Ryu from 3rd strike and when Ryu did it, it was an exploit that people took advantage of. Either way, the point is that if you give that to Bison he’d be stupid. He wouldn’t need to put people into the corner. He’d just backthrow into massive damage.
I think we all agree the SD sucks ass and there is no reason for it to not work.
Yes Gouken can combo off of his back throw and it is absurd the damage he gets. But I’m not talking about something of that magnitude; rather something of decent damage but not absurd like for instance c.mp into SK or PC. This could be accomplished by the range of the throw. Or, for those who can’t do the combo they could do the slide. This was the same concept in SF EX.
Another solution is to just make hell attack good.
scissor kicks should hit overhead
And Psycho Crusher second hit should be blocked as cross up if you blocked the first hit XD.
What Bison truly needs is a true anti-air. His ground game is strong but you can’t force your opponent to play a ground game with Bison’s awful anti-airs.( if they just delete Bison’s far HP and replace it with the close one…).
Said it before and I’ll say it again, get rid of standing far fierce and make him use the close version all the time, or adjust hitboxes on st.hk so it doesn’t trade quite so much as an AA. I like the former idea better tbh as standing far fierce is largely useless.
lol are you serious? A bit hard to detect sarcasm in text unless there’s a kappa or something after. So the opponent would have to block the crouching shorts low and the scissor kick overhead. Even though we all use Bison, that is asking for a bit much and pretty damn overpowered haha.
I reckon make st. far fierce faster startup or give it some frame advantage on block and hit to make it comboable in at least a counter-hit situation.
I think SK being overhead is a bad idea. It has never been one and doesn’t fit with the play-style intended for the character.
On the subject of Bison having a true AA, I think this is flawed as well. Bison is supposed to be about offense, NOT defense. The problem Bison has is that his damage output and his overall offense isn’t good enough to make him truly competitive. He is average at best, not bad, but average.
Bison has safe pressure. even with that it comes down to what I said before; if he guesses right he gets minimal damage compared to him getting punished either due to something he did that was unsafe or something he did that was safe but countered. He basically has to beat you like twice while he gets pummeled and ten gets knocked down, which is NOT good for him, even with meter.
Up his offense and you keep with the true style of the character while maintaining the trade-off of poor defense.
Like I said, fixing the SD and DR (overall air game) and adding something in the way of damage (doesn’t have to be absurd but piratical) like say a better hell attack or a throw that can have a decent combo or just upping the damage or certain key moves would make all the difference in the world. All doing that would do is keep his style the same and make him competitive while preserving his weaknesses. On the subject of hell attack, if you made it better and made it so EX moves took more damage or even normal moves could be combo’d, it might be a good idea also.
There are lots of ways to improve the character, but there are also lots of ways to break the character. Making scissor kicks overhead is one of those game-breaking changes.
I think discussing theoretical improvements to Bison is fun, but:
a) this is in the wrong thread, and
b) these theoretical improvements are never going to happen
At least take the discussion to the social thread?
edit: These threads brings back memories. It also discusses almost the same things
So I tested the Sakura lk shunpu setup off of shoo FADC, which is sampled here:
[media=youtube]jgHWxTC2wA4[/media]
@1:35
The lk tatsu is not a crossup, it is unblockable, and it tags escape EX-PC on the back end. Sakura is also +3 or +4 after the FADC, so you can either risk mashing/EX scissors or teleport.
Broke.
i recently saw a match of neurosis where he did a particluar backthrow setup against cammy.
i was experimenting with it a bit and thats the result 
[media=youtube]X92jj0h5h4I[/media]
timing is quite hard to get but even messed up its a safejump/makes reversals wiff
it also works vs Guile and El Fuerte
J. HP is so good, so tricky, so safe.
What match-ups do you guys use U2 over U1? U2 was generally better before AE but now I’m not so sure. The damage is less than U1, it’s trickier to pull off after a successful hell attack and it’s harder to punish moves on reaction because a charge is needed.
I use u2 for the following: rose ehonda (online) blanka ibuki shotos (only if I downloaded fire ball patterns) deejay slim juri and Rufus ultra one is better for me I feel very comfortable with it baiting ups whiff attack punishes etc u2 has tricks but they don’t work on good players
U2 works on Guiles who think “LOL I WILL JUST SPAM BOOMS CAUSE OF THE RECOVERY!”. Download that shit!
Yup yup.
U2 against good Guiles is useless but the amount of times I’ve U2’d online Guiles doesn’t bear thinking about.
Block one full screen boom and immediately U2. Gotta have DL’d their style but a shit ton of them throw another one immediately after a full screen one is blocked. Even better if it’s Ex.
Yep, it’s even funnier offline lol. They think because you’re blocking full screen, there’s nothing you can do. BAAAAAAH SUCH WEAKNESS!
Hey guys Ibuki player here.
Got smacked a couple of weeks ago by a non-bipson-main player. Who was RIDICULOUSLY aggressive, and there was nothing I could do about it. He always managed to guess correctly. It was probably one of those days where everything simply goes wrong and you end up braking your fightstick… again. In the end we played a very long set, I lost. (big surprise) 25 games to 0. Yes, 25-0. I was SO mind fucked after 5 to 7 rounds. Somehow though, after playing him, all Bisons I play now are much easier. Especially the ones that don’t play aggressively. Those guys are so free.
I come here to ask you guys what the fuck am I supposed to do in the corner and mid-range? All of Bison’s normals completely destroy Ibuki’s normals… ALL of Ibuki’s normals. Jumping never works for me in the corner. NEVER. I always get a boot to the ovaries. The best solution I’ve found is to jump at them after a scissor kick. Works OK-ish, especially if it was at max range, so no baby abortion roundhouse boot. Good footsies, Dash-in throw, random slides, easy Ibuki normals to punish, low Ibuki health… What am I supposed to do? I can’t get any reads on random / aggressive Bipsons, and I can’t stop them from being aggressive, they are on too many bath salts.
I’ve tried to study some High level Ibuki vs Bison videos (like Sako vs Dogura) And all I see are crazy reactions, CRAZY punishes, crazy-ish reads and and a non-aggressive Bison. Why? Why isn’t Dogura overly aggressive? What is he scared of? Is there a magic Ibuki butt slam attack that paralyzes Bison dick? What am I missing?
Specifically, what do you have the most trouble when facing an Ibuki. What should I be looking for? What should I be doing? Should I jump on Bisons all day? Do I try to play footsies? Do I go for gimmicks? Do I have to rely on purely good reads and patience? Is taunting a good idea? Should I yell harder into my mic? Should I counter-pick with Dan? Should I start lag switching? Should I quit playing SSF4 altogether? Should I flip my dick out mid-match in hopes of distracting the Bison player and sneak in a win? Help, I have no idea what else to do.
I don’t get much Bison practice, hes not a very popular character and I haven’t found any Bison worth adding… Except that one Bison that I mentioned. Sadly that fucker never responded to my friend request. And that makes me mad, hes probably scared that I’ll beat him by losing 25-0 again.
Usually I’d ask the Ibuki forums for tips, but I want to see what your guyses opinion is.
tl;dr: Ibuki is trying to stop getting molested by hairy uncle Bipson. Wat do.
This is quite a good matchup for Bison actually no wonder you’re having problems. I’m far from being even a good player but i think some advices are easy to give:
At the right space (close) Bison is free to jump ins, since his anti air is bad. I think Ibuki’s jump arc is quite good at this. Don’t get to frenzy on it though since you can eat a j.MP, Ultra.
Don’t try to play footsies with him this one is quite obvious
Try to bait EX PC just like you’d try to bait a srk but with a jump back instead.
OS that slide thing when Bison has no meter since it’ll catch teleports.
Watch your replays from these matches and study them.
If everything else fails pick Guile.
Sako isn’t a dick you can jump in on all day, not for free at least
Ibuki has a harder time vs bison because he can get away from her gimics, His footises beat hers (if used right) and its hard to get a safe knock down (what ibuki needs to do dmg)
Her votex can even be punished for free with ULT 2.
Best bet is to aim for the knock down and option select teleports or ex devil reverses.
Int he corner you have to just be patient and accept ure gona get chipped alot. Lookf or the opening and dont try and jump out and panic thats when bison does dmg.
Bisons dmg is very low, a bison can pressure u all game and do not much dmg then u get 1 knock down and come back in like 5-10 seconds. Thats bisons weakness his dmg. and no overhead hurts too.
my 2 cents