"BEST BIPSON!" - Dictator Match-Ups

Claw beats Bison in footsies and air to air. While Vegas is standing and your not right beside him, he has the advantage. You need to work your way in patiently.

Vega’s weakness is his chronic wake up game, poor anti air and the fact that most of his moves are extremely unsafe on block.
Like Bison S.HK is his anti air but its hitbox isn’t as good and trades are very bad for him as its 2 hit move.
Scarlet Terror is his other option but it can be stuffed alot of the time by regular jump ins.
Vega’s Best anti air are neutral jumps or a pre-emptive jump back HP or his excellent air throw.

Once you get a knockdown Vega is free to meaties unless he has Ultra 2 stocked. If he does have U2 he can punish your meaties. Bait it out.
He doesn’t have a single special with hit invincibility.
This leaves him with 2 options, backdash or back flip. Backdash can be covered with OS S.HK, backflip is so slow you can walk after him and punish him on recovery.

Flying Barcelona attack is punsihable on block, or you can attack it in the air, best with some jump back attack. Its also focus fodder. However don’t focus attack it if your opponent goes for grabs. If its still giving you trouble just teleport to avoid dealing with any mix ups.
You can punish meter building Barcelona Attacks with U2.
Sky High Claw is punshiable on block, watch out for the EX version crossing over to the other side and hittinng on the way back.
Rolling Crystal flash is safe on block. But its really slow and easy to avoid. Sometimes used as a chip move on your wake up. Ex.PC will trade win against it.
Scarlet Terror is very unsafe on block.
His S.HK is god like, but the second hit whiffs on crouchers and its very punishable on block if your in range.
His other most notabley normal is his down forward HK known as cosmic heal which juggles on hit. Its unsafe on block at very close range.
His slide is super unsafe.
His overhead is okay but doesn’t lead to anything.
His J.HP can be used as an instant overhead.
He has a reasonably good kara throw.
He lacks any cross ups from normal jumps.

When he looses his claw he looses range and damage. Don’t let him pick it for free.
When he looses his mask he takes like 20% more damage but does 10% more damage. Sometimes Vega’s will get rid of the mask if your very low and health and the damage boost from loosing the mask might help kill you in the next attack.
Overall Vegas damage output is modest, maybe slightly better than Bisons.

As for Seth.
He’s a tough one. Its hard to anti air him because of the speed of his wall jump and his ability to change the angle and timing of his jump ins with his dive kick.
Air to Air he’s good too. J.MP owns Bison in the air.

General stuff about Seth.
He has 200 less health than Bison and 50 less stun.
His specials tend to have more invincibility than other characters. His DP for example has more invincible frames than any other DP.
His specials also have way worse recovery. His sonic boom for example is much slower to recovery than Guiles. DP, Spin Kick are all massively punishable on block.
His S.HP has huge range but is very laggy.
His combo’s don’t do huge damage but he gets to land them more due to his excellent mix ups. Combo’s do high stun.

Generally I try to push Seth to the corner slowly by walking slowly, blocking, neutral jump and occasional focus dashing throw sonic booms and S.HP.
As you push Seth back, be on the look out for wall jump escapes. NJ.HP is a good counter to this. If you get him to to corner pressure like you would a normal shoto, but remember to keep an eye on the wall jump escapes. If he jumps but not forward, neutral jump on reaction to keep him contained.
Once your within about 60% of the screen Seth has to be careful with throwing booms as they have very poor recovery. A correct guess from Bison will take over a third of his health. An incorrect guess will see Bison in mix up hell.

Seth can get in if you block booms with his wall jump from distance or a direct jump from closer range. If you know this is coming you can pre-empt with J.MP but if Seth doesn’t jump your probably going eat a DP or one of Seths better air normals.

Air to air Seth wins, unless Bison uses a neutral jump attack.

Seths DP is 5 frame so can be legit safe jumped off a throw.

Once knocked down, your in guessing territory this is where Seth excells and has a strong advantage, he has alot of ambigious jump ins.
From frontal jump ins Seth can OS tandem engine to catch backdash and teleport, but that will loose to EX.PC or EX.Stomp and EX.DR will evade.
OS DP will beat EX.PC but EX.Stomp ill evade and set up a punish as will 3P/3K+RDP Teleport.
Seth can punish EX.PC on block with S.HP, Super or Ultra 1.
From cross ups your going loose back charge. So your going have to guess with either block, tech, teleport or jump escape to deal with block string, frame traps, tick throw, command grab mix up. After going out of command throw range he can suck you back in with Tandem engine. Mashing teleport isn’t a bad idea here, but don’t get too predictable. Pretty much all Bisons’s escape options can be punished by an even semi awake Seth with U1.
You can also use regular devils reverse to take a hit (not from a cross up though) and get reset to avoid having to guess through his mix up.

Tidbits
He can punish Ex.Headstomp landing on block with U1 or Super, so if has these options cross him over as late as possible to prevent this.
Best not to headstomp him when he has U1.
DR meter build goes out the window when he has Super or U1 as well.
His Super trap consists of him chucking a fireball and if you do anything other than block or neutral jump at full screen away you be sucked into his super. (Focus dash backwards at full screen may work too)
You can’t EX.SK through EX.Sonic Booms.
Seth is -3 after FADC forward from DP. If your boss you can punish with C.LK.
Blocking tandem engine from close range will give your frame advantage.
Seth can combo into U2 anywhere he can combo into stomps.

Unbelieveably good info Azza. Amazing help mate and I can’t thanks you enough. Hitting training mode later for sure.

I see you’re in Ireland bud. I live in Cornwall so we’d probably have a half decent connection if you ever fancy a game or two. I’m TheBirdLives on PSN and Live. Tend to play more on PSN just cos my PS3’s in my living room so hit me up if you fancy a game sometime.

Thanks again for the assistance.

^^ add me or invite me whenever you in endless Ruthless_Brothaz @ thebirdlives and azza

and very good vega info will take it to the lab as well

You on PSN or XBL mate?

Ugh st.mk doesn’t seem to be anywhere close to useful vs Ryu or Ken for that matter. It does NOT beat their cr.mk it whiff punishes it…if your lucky enough to be in that one pixel of spacing. J.hk is a free in for Ryu at least, its a bad trade with Bison’s aa.

I also find U2 to be 100% useless against them well the semi smart ones anyways and U1 well…your not beating either of them in the air.

How I usually run this fight: try to keep him at st.mk range and hope I can block the inevitable j.hk jump in/blockstring/throw. Getting in doesn’t usually help me one bit as Bison is just too predictable on a lot of his stuff and well he can’t open up a patient Ryu. If I get the life lead I can try and play keep away for a while but it is rare that I get the life lead first barring an exceptional good read on my end.

so anyone want to talk about Bison anti air option ?

ROUNDHOUSE.
cr.fierce
jump in fierce/jump in MP
neutral jump fierce
neutral jump roundhouse

above are my choice, now lets talk some anti air…little trash talk here…

Roundhouse is the most used anti air in all time, and this involve some guess game and if you guess right, they being forced to play with Bison on the ground.
you start with roundhouse, since that range and speed are awesome already, you will get few type of read by just doing this…
if they like to jump in like crazy after you round house them…
they either very noob or very pro, if they ok it will enter 2nd stage of guess anti air, but if they are really pro, your ultra 1 better be buff when they jump again.
This also BEAT devil reverse P option, it kick out Devil Reverse while its landing…
can be OS, OS back dash with roundhouse, frame trap, cr.lp st.lp wait a sec roundhouse.
only bad thing about it is last pretty long, if they know is coming they can ultra you…when your lag stick out.

then now is cr.fierce, I have to said is an amazing move, lot of people will disagree since is so slow, and so bad, it all depend.
if you anti air them with roundhouse, most of them are doing LATE jump in attack, means they are at start up stage when your roundhouse kick them.
SO? if they have some brain like most good player do, they CHANGE timing, become EARLY jump in attack, it PUNISH roundhouse, and get them momentum.
and this, make cr.fierce work, since they attack is already out in the air, they just land on your purple fist…, st fierce work here too, the far one HIT LIKE TRUCK.
THIS THING, also, is very very punishable. You can’t whiff this in some game and against some player…
funny is this move can be cancel, can do from cr.HP into some mix up (FADC) and catch some people off guard.
and can also hit like frame trap for counter hit, jab few times after you throw them, then bait out, then go jab jab jab cr.fierce…or on some very late tec
character (rose?yeah Rose…)just jab and fierce…is amazing move.

and st.fierce, ahh my favorite REWARD=RISK move, if they are out of both range (cr.fierce/roundhouse), and you think st.MK lose to their jump in (too close), use this, it will trade them but is good damage.
you might able do this on some dive kick happy player and hit them on recovery.
this works wonder on Rufus sometime, but I like use this against Makoto a lot, it stuff up a lot of her stuff and if you throw them out when they WHIFF the air axe kick, this hurts, funny sometime it trade with sim’s jump back fierce…

neutral jump roundhouse, a very good but also risky move, because you have to jump.
and this beats those moves give you trouble in most range, and prevent them going on you again, but watch out if you jump too often, you get a sweep…
it can’t replace jump MP xx, but range I think is better and it can do really late entry for it, so you might end up with a neutral jump have no attack but here we go they jump try to punish neutral jump, cr.fierce them…

Jump in attack are not that good at my point of view, since you have to be on point and risk, there is 2 type of jump, one is totally random (ah I think he gonna jump so I jump) this type sucks when it comes to number and punish, this is not as close to good read, is just random. let’s said if you DO hit them, you will want to do again, and next time gonna be your doom because that is just random, BUT, a good jump in anti air, include j.mp xx into ultra…too.
you jump AFTER they jump, because you have prepared, so just see their spacing, sometime walk closer, you might bait their jump in/out and you can punish.
sometime we randomly jump MP and hit people with 2nd hit while we landing, this is not good in my view, your next whiff jump in anti air WILL eventually KILL youself…the best Jump in punish anti air should almost always be the 2P, the 1P do the attack, and 2P punish it AFTER known other play habits…

NJ fierce.
hit high and very early, it works very well vs wall jump/set player, also works when character have high jump or you already convince them they have to jump more to win , Viper for example and Sims, Guy, Chun for example, it is also good against Gief PPP.

NJ roundhouse
opposite than NJ fierce, if they have very low jump and try to panic jump out, this work on them, this move have very long active time and it also BLOCK 2 way
except sweep, if they try to work under you they mostly get hit by roundhouse when you land since that move have A LOT OF active time…
and Honda, will land on roundhouse in mid air if he try to jump out or cross you up.
when this fail or get punish before, Jump back fierce (for high attack) or jump back roundhouse (for longer range)
if this hits them, I think you can also use jump mp xx, jump mp can hit very high or very low, but not really middle.

all jump back option on Bison are OK, if they jump in and JUMP again immediately and is a cross up (like most shoto do), jump back fierce pretty much beats it, jump back roundhouse can do better on range I guess.

almost all Bison normal can do as anti air and footsie at same time, if your spacing was right, your anti air will not whiff, so if you have enough read,
their jump in is actually a free hit for you…at least that is WHAT I FEEL after watch tons of Happy Medicine replay, your jump in mostly is free give away for him, you force to hold on when Bison footsie the crap out of you and get chip while build meter and scary push them to corner, their only outcome is either achieve better read than him or start jump like new player and eventually eat raw Ultra or get head stomp while jump when in corner, and that is like Tuesday…

any idea? Thank you for read them…and sry for my English…

** Finally these info all contribute to West, a great player willing to share so much knowledge…

For me, Bison’s anti air options boil down to whether or not you can read the jump in. If you’re expecting it or can bait it then Cr Fierce works wonders. Roundhouse trades too much to be reliable, I just block instead most of the time. Maybe I’m timing it incorrectly though.

One thing you missed: Neutral MK is great air to air since the hitbox extends almost to the end of his foot and beats most jump ins clean.

st.lk is pretty decent sometimes for aa

Bison has AA options his problem is that almost all of them trade more often than not and not usually in his favor. This added to his low dmg output in general can be very problematic

well my general idea after get them down to the point of annoying people is to:
1)present some footsie that either pin-down, whiff punish, stuff up their moves.
2)throw mix up, include st.lp (+4 on block) st.lk (+3 OB) and frame trap session, close MK, close MP, st.fierce, and roundhouse. and Bait out session.
3)plan the scissor and make sure you don’t get crumble, and mix up FADC cancel, cr.fierce FADC, EX scissor FADC, SLIDE FADC
4)being more unpredictable but focus mainly on anti air, do tough hit and run + walk back on the ground, only push when in favorite, get meter lead.

If you doing above list right, they soon realize beside jump, their option is pretty limited, yeah I know its problematic…for AA.
normally one READ miss you being punish like hell, so I try to make sure I slow them down enough before they go Amok that I can react to it.
and stay away (AMOK style is like Rose Ultra 2) you stay away and they will be frenzy for brief sec and only thing left is stupidity…and you can punish.
but if you get caught during their I DON’T F CARE NOW state, you will get rush down pretty bad, and some player will be GDLK once they do enter IDFCN
stage…

neutral jump MK is good against some player, but I missed a lot during Air to Air stage or is just never hit, the problem is for NJ.MK you have to know they jump
before they leave the ground (like very lucky jump MP xx, you jump mp then they just jump right into it)
if they don’t jump but work forward you get sweep or their anti air (Guy, Gun, Makoto,Gief etc), and range is not as easy as NJ roundhouse, or NJ fierce (mashable)
that is one of my last problem now, NJ or not, especially at risky stage and if I don’t neutral jump, I often miss that anti air option in that position.
and IF neutral jump miss that jump in they just do, I think is perfect to Ultra 1 for that just now.

close fierce is pretty gdlk if you ask me, it can trade thr cross up sometime, but if they adjust and hit low which leave the gap less when they cross you up,
st fierce stop working, st.fierce also works when they jump in first then jump again for cross up, it trades and they get bounce away.

finally, the trade, ah my favorite part…
It is for us to lose the trade, but if when lock down is needed, I rather trade and put them back to where they DO NOT WANT to be.
if the corner is very close, wall jump, dive kick dash jump what ever, they will use it to get out of it, if you are prepare, that is not that hard to react.
trade roundhouse is good for far lock down, trade cr.fierce too, not to mention you recover faster if is counter hit, if you trade cr.fierce and FADC,
depend on where you hit (very high or very low) I think you can fadc under the people (I never try, but if I dash I normally bait something out)
Jump MP on highest point at corner is pretty good if they neutral jump try to catch your Scissor (which is stupid idea if YOU RARELY repeat scissor,
but most people used it anyway)and jump fierce work on that point to, this often make people start panic at corner, so just wait, something stupid
will come at corner when you do NOTHING just stay there and few anti air send them back to corner, you start see whiff EX SRK, SRK FADC
sweep, neutral jump, random sht comes fast…

st.lk I don’t know as anti air, it works sometime on Rufus MU, but for dive kick, I rather hit it on recovery or hit it out when they dive in empty and hit them on mid air, but never stuff (you put move there and they dive in to it, cr.fierce for example) is too hard to do that, best way to play with dive kick is NEVER let them get one on you, same as Able step kick, Gen jump in, st.mk to hand, Barolg dash punish or jab, Guy Elbow drop.
if you turtle right, and they can’t get what they want and you have the lead, is very very tough to make them chose the safe option anymore…
I wish I can do block read (throw tec, read counter hit, read moves) like 30sec to rusher, they can rush whole day they want only damage they can have is
nothing but chip, sry no throw and no counter hit either, this often send people to do repeating stuff (you attack less you read more, you attack a lot you
give out most information and pattern)

try to lv up here, more I should note about Bison anti air?

St.lk is for when you creep under their crossup attempt and they are really low to the ground and close to you, so you just tick them and dash forward for pressure.

I don’t know it 's suitable when I post here but how can I anti-Bison
I got a lot of trouble when encountering a Bison

With what character…?

I use Yun and Oni (Version 2012)

This is what my friend used:

He used Scissor Kick to frame trap and lure me into the corner. When I am in the corner, he use frame trap and HK to avoid me jump out
If I lured him into the corner, He uses Ex Pys or Teleport to flee
I usually mix-up Headstomp and Devil-Reverse. If I anti-Air Headstomp by using Shoryuken or Upkick, I may be hit by Devil-Reverse

With Oni your screwed unless you make some REALLY good reads with meter to burn. Seriously am beginning to believe Oni is the worst character in this game from using him, even worse than t hawk.

lol get out of town

Anyway If you think he gets too comfy using EX-psycho to escape the corner you can just forward+fierce to punish

I got some Vega practice in against my buddy, he’s a good 3kPP Vega. He beat me more than I beat him but I still think I did pretty good! That match is a HUGE pain in the ass, fuck. He can poke you for free after a scissor kick, not to mention he can counter the NEXT one just by sticking his claw out. You can focus his walldive for free, just watch for the izuna grab. Really not a fun match, I really think Vega wins it +5.5 or +6.

I think Bison Vega is a 0-10 loss for Bison, thats just my personal opinion though.

??? Worst character? His shoryuken has highest priority, or 2nd (Seth/oni is on top). he can bait both ultra and super… big dmg output.

He sucks at mid and long range, his mobility is ass so its a constant struggle for him to close distance. Sure he can bait ultra/super, just like everyone else. He has big damage yes if he gets in and lands hits, and it is really hard for him to do so, especially against Bison who can keep him at mid range all day. His SRK has a lot of invul yes yet as far as shotos and even Seth he is different in the fact he can’t FADC his on block, besides which why the hell would you jump on Oni? Even taking away his SRK both st.hp and cr.hp will beat just about every jump attack you care to make if you don’t knock him down first.

Oni’s good points: good damage up close, great AA normals, srk has a lot of invul on HP and EX versions.

Oni’s bad points: Mobility, long range pokes are either slow or have shitty hitboxes both in the case of f+mk, crappy fireball, can’t fadc his srk on block actually wish this would apply to all shotos but since it doesn’t this makes his worse in a couple situations.

tl,dr: Name a single matchup where Oni has a clear advantage, cause I can’t think of a single one. A good chunk of them might be even matchups but I can’t think of one where he has an advantage. One or another of his bad points always hoses him. He’s nice when he can get going I use him as an alt but its really hard to get going and requires almost psychic reads to both get in and get the hits he needs to start bringing down the pain

Gen.

Close hp, +5 on block (no sht, he can do it TWICE in your face, twice, and you can’t do a thing, and if IT TRADE, free super into ultra.)
cr.lp on hit, +7 (what?)
st.MK into slap (can’t focus)
many jump move hits twice, but mix up with empty jump cr.short, so is very hard to tell which one and it can mix up so well with cross up.
and, it can hit you VERY VERY low or very very high (beats anti air attmpt)

the person teach me all fundamental and concept/skill is using Gen as his main, even for Gen is bad match up (someone said 6/4 Bison favorite?),
but I never beat him, even casual.
I was losing poking game from very start, Gen normal are cover at wide range spectrum, it have fast start long reach move (cr.mp, the shining finger)
or short but fast move (cr.mk, looks like evil ryu cr.mk but shorter) or slow but long reach move recover slow and last long (sweep, I dash into it sometime)

the main problem is I can’t beat his footsie, st.mk can’t work as I want it to be, it eat sweep, and if I stop st.mk he walk to me freely.
and jump me freely, my anti air is even worst nightmare, I can space but soon being push to corner.
the problem now against my teacher Gen is that he does NOT use any gimmick, no wall dive, no roll, nothing, but pure poking game and counter hit trap super into ultra, or so much throw, tic throw that make you guess. and A LOT OF OPTION SELECT. I was tide to do the same thing, no gimmick, no head stomp, no random jump, no devil reverse (he can dash forward punish when land, anytime).

how you against Gen totally know what he is doing? any suggestion?
what should I focus more to work on? what am I doing wrong against Gen?

My concept against GEN:
1)Anti air, must trade, or must NOT engage, don’t get hit by anything so he have to re approach, which means another jump in, maybe I can punish.
2) no random, random scissor gets crumble, random st.mk gets stuff/sweep, cr.fierce gets punish hard, cr.mp is my last hope but I can’t use much either.
3)trap, close MK cr.MK, never do st.fierce cause it gets jab out into combo sometime.
4) whiff st.lk see what he got, sometime I avoid big stuff and able to punish it on whiff, but not reliable either
5) air to air don’t have much hope, jump MK sometime works better than jump fierce (don’t know), and neutral jump is A LOT of risk…

btw he place 2nd in Rockem Sockem (ReSe) at NC, Charlotte.

stream when he was in

if anyone of you have some crazy good tips against Gen, please share, because I don’t know how to beat it…never made anything but 2-0, not even 2-1, I always lose to him…