I hear he was, I look forward to the replays heading up on youtube. How did he do in singles though where it matters?
Anyway people are moaning too much about Bison here. He’s a lot better off than characters like Rose and Vega. Grinding it out is his playstyle, if you want to play an easier character with better footsies, damage, overhead and a command grab go play Fei or something. Bisons a skilled character at the highest level, you just need an awful lot of patience unless you enjoy taking risks .
He reached top32 but got eliminated in 2nd round of loser’s bracket by Ricky Ortiz (who already sent him to the loser’s bracket the day before), think he tied for 17th place. The Rufus matchup seems kinda weird, I kinda like this match and it doesn’t feel very difficult in my experience, but in high-level play it looks like Rufus would win this the majority of the time. He has a hard time getting in but once (a very good) Rufus is in his offense is too much to handle.
ricky also can pull off some clutch play with great reads etc, that might have been more than neurosis was ready for, so in that particular case it was potentially more about neurosis v ricky than bison v rufus. i missed that match though, so I’m also anxious for the archives to go on youtube (where they will be free apparently)
also, i don’t think neurosis doing a DOUBLE OCV should be “not counted” because it wasn’t singles. DOUBLE OCV.
Getting overly annoyed at certain matchups lately obviously. I wasn’t thinking huge buffs, it wouldn’t take much for Bison to be able to do a lot better. Replacing standing far fierce which is worthless with the close version at all times would be a nice start.
Yeah you have to be patient to win with him the problem is unless your reading the other player like a book some characters read anyone with a dive kick except maybe Cammy your not likely to get the opportunity to do much of anything and even if you do get a few reads in Bison just doesn’t do the damage to make up for the damage you probably already took getting to that point.
The Rufus MU is odd, I don’t get what it is yet. I do agree at High level it looks pretty tricky. I think Bisons got to play a perfect hit and run game. I remember watching Kim dominate Wong at SBO just staying out of Rufus’s ideal space range. Was pretty sweet.
Tied 17th is a legit result though so well played to him.
Nobody is discounting a double OCV as not counting, it was sick. It was 1 game though so it doesn’t share the same credibility as a double elim singles tournament. That’s just my opinion though.
I’m glad Neurosis is putting in work now at foreign tournaments. Was gutted he didn’t get out of pools at evo.
have you considered that maybe all it will take is those certain characters getting nerfed to make bison as competitive as you want him to be? Sometimes all it takes is a few characters to get nerfed for your own character to shoot up the viability chart.
Oh I have thought of that but I figure that one change I mentioned would be a really nice help either way. Besides not exactly sure what to do about oh say Rufus besides make his dive kick unsafe on block at lowest height which would kill his viability almost completely. Which is why I am wishing they would fix or replace a few of Bison’s more useless moves/normals instead
Neurosis’ performance was really scary to me, partly because Snafoo and Chi-Rithy own my soul (I live in mtl); and for neuro to dismantle them with a character who relies so very heavily on pure footsies just proves that he was a much better player, but Bison still doesn’t win tournaments because it simply isn’t likely that you’ll overshadow your opponents in terms of raw skill like that. Out-footsie-ing players like Wong is something I’ll never dream to achieve. And this goes back to what James Chen was saying about Ryu/Bison only shining in the hands of godlike players… (he also claimed Ryu didn’t have shenanigans but I’ll just choose to ignore that :D) In the post tourney interview with Kazunoko, he himself admitted to having poor footsies and using Yun’s divekick as an anti-footsie tool (read: clutch), and I don’t have to explain to you how scary that form of approach is in SF4. And not to take anything away from Wong/Ortiz/Wolfkrone, but to me, it is much more impressive when a player like F.Champ or Mike Ross win just because their characters rely far more on fundamentals.
Neurosis’ presence already put those guys at a disadvantage. You are all factoring out the mental and psychological aspect of how Bison wins and loses.
You can’t trivialize Bison because only Neurosis and Kim1234 are really putting dents into the top echelon of SF4 players. It’s not consistent enough. Bison has limited options, while they are very effective when they work, they get shut down easier than a lot of other characters. Bison cannot mount a comeback as easy.
Interesting to see how everyone feels about Bison v Shotos. I think the only Shoto that Bison loses to is Akuma. Once he knocks you down, his vortex handles Bison so well. He can account for every escape Bison can attempt with OS. Of course you still have to guess on which escape I’m doing but still, that much is so difficult. I feel like Bison is 6-4 against Ryu, Ken, Sakura, Gouken. 5-5 against Sagat. 4-6 against Akuma. And then there’s Dan… Lol, I actually think that’s 5-5. Bison’s worst match-ups are all canon. Akuma hit him with the Raging Demon, Guile and Chun are always on his ass.
Yeah, timed appropriately, either of those moves could smack Vega out of there. Also, to punish “safe” wall dives done in the corner, Chris King told me to just teleport over there and you get a free punish.
Yeah, I always enjoyed watching Ryan’s Dhalsim. The main that separates him from any other Sim I’ve played or seen is that even though he’s full screen away, he’s still playing footsies, he’s still pressuring you, just as if he was a Ryu or someone similar in your face.
Justin though is such a footsie beast, watching him and watching Ricky is a lot different. Ricky might be a better overall Rufus (BIG Maybe) but Justin’s footsies make his Rufus look more polished. He makes his sweep look gdlk and spaces everything else perfectly, but that’s just him. I remember Mike Ross said he always beats Gamerbee in sets or in tournament, but he played a set with Justin’s Adon and got bodied like 8-0.
I watch over Lucky D vs Neurosis vid SO MANY TIME.
Lucky D have very strong metal power…
I just feel worst MU on Bison is either KEEP AWAY Akuma(not all loop-vortex, keep away like tokido play sometime) and KEN
ken is actually most dangerous shoto, it have good kara throw, good counter hit damage/speed, his air move are great and FAST (you have to react before it throw out or you get big damage)
you can’t just footsie him if he know you like to play footsie and spacing, once he broken your spacing and the kara throw mix up so well that you have only few option to escape UNDER his OS, Akuma is bad MU I know, but if he like to come to me I am not worry, is the one just know how to totally keep away and play akuma like an fking Dlhsim, that is one I have problem all the time, all your stuff is not in range and you can’t punish anything if he is not doing anything (not even fireball)
and you have to walk to him that, you can’t react if he throw you a fireball, you can’t even focus because you eat sweep, close enough? he will get away very fast before you doing that unless you get ultra 2…reset again, while you try to get in after you eat first fireball and lose hp, nightmare begin he will never come to you you have to chase him down…
Against Sim I don’t see any issue with throwing out random scissors (Particularly EX scissors). If Sim has no meter what is his maximum dmg punish? I’ve never been caught with any major punish in my little experience against Sim in this case. The risk vs reward seems pretty good to me in favour of taking risks like this for knockdown and getting sim into the corner as quickly as possible. Plus it can condition Sim to throw out less limbs and be more cautious if he gets caught with random EX scissor which allows you to cover more ground.
He doesn’t have the spacing to do back mk xx flame afterblocking an ex scissors. The flame will whiff and you can actually punish. The best he can do without super is a back+rh. You want to use it intelligently since building meter is hard against sim from full screen, but you’re right about the risk reward being in your favor since you take minimal damage if he blocks, and push them that much closer to the corner if they get hit. With super this obviously changes though.
Yeah that’s pretty interesting. I think the MU is 5-5 though. I agree with you with meter management. Without meter it’s pretty damn difficult to get in. Once you’re in though he can’t really escape if you OS slide off a meaty jab.
i never play a very good sim but me, i use a lot of FA forward dash cancel to push him very fast in a corner and i kill him, you can punish him with roundhouse if you FA his cr hp (punish with st mk if you FA full screen)
Do you mean st hp? Most sims would NEVER use cr hp.
Focusing limbs is a good tactic against sim. But again, you have to be thoughtful with it. If you are constantly focusing then they will blow you up for it. You really need to scout a st hp for it to be reliable. Trying to focus dash through a short or even a mp is likely to get you slapped in the face. Also, if you pop focus and they didn’t press anything, they can punish you for trying to dash out of it with HP.
no I think he said yomi cr.hp will punish sim throw out st.mk.
FA dash in, cr.hp if they st.mk that time to prevent you jump cr.hp will be it.
HK roundhouse beat the jump hp too sometime, it must be yomi/buppa, because you hit it
before it totally reach out.
well cr.mk punish st.hp too. if you throw it out and it might stuff it…
I don’t really like this MU, most sim I play never give up space that easy, and being aggressive toward your spacing and harassing you with fireball+ limps…