Ok anyone have any decent counters to Guy’s elbow drop once he is in the range where st.rh is useless and cr.hp doesn’t work because it is too slow? BTW have tried lp pc, it fails to start all the way at that range of course, its startup is worse than cr.hp.
uh, few my scrubbers suggestion?
a decent guy is rare find, I mean I met some before but I think Guy have serious problem:
1)bad jump, jump less threatening than sim, maybe not threatening at all, so left them only choice is elbow drop on daily basis. and with sim floaty jump on him he can’t cause much harm unless you are too close/corned
2)elbow drop is not bad, almost like Akuma OS but less threatening too, and lack of run away tools if they fail one, unlike akuma, mostly a EX kick save him…
3)either run or slide or elbow to get close, dashing is option but walking speed is very sad for him. So if you run back and forth can give him “oh no he is running away” frustration, just watch out corner, I feel almost same pressure like facing akuma at corner when get trapped by GUY…since almost all his combo liked on corner so you might eat a elbow drop and lose half of your HP by all crazy cancel or FADC into UC1.
just don’t get knock down much, and sometime have EX bar on you make them think twice since EX PC is so notorious.
sometime if range is right, few EX HS will make them stop, because even trade EX HS is just SO GOOD at damage/speed/angle, his elbow drop can do nothing unless u whiff, but if he is leave ground and your EX come after him and he is under ur feet for good.
s.MP might do, Guy is very weird combination, he is like mix Akuma+sim jump speed and focus more on damage out put with throw and grab. his target combo can stop if you crouch, which is a plus for crouching charge Bison…
but some how very good guy confuse me in close jump in (kind of ambiguous? I don’t know how that happen), is pretty dangerous when he is at your face for too long.
and for pressure game, bison wins.
go best bipson, rape that Bushit-ryu into gravyyyyy 
st.mp is too slow plus its hit box in the situation I described means you lose. We are talking about a normal/special that can consistently beat sakura’s cr.hp.
EX-PC looses for the same reasons lp pc loses, startup. EX-SK loses most of the time or whiffs for close to the same reason.
s.lk? or s.lp?? those can’t do it too??
that must be good guy then, since I don’t play one consistently doing right spacing elbow drop, is either few good one but later is either became too predictable or too far away …
I want to know it too now…how about mix FA and dash back s.hk?
or slide under them?
St.cl.hp is probably the only move I can think of that might beat it or at least trade, but I am so used to not using it because of the retarded distance restriction for the change to the close version. st far hp sucks lol, it has damage buts thats about it.
Dash under might work if they do it high enough, but they can kinda tkcs the move and do it low enough to the ground as well. FA almost never works, the elbow drop is safe on block if not plus frames, end up getting smacked by a followup normal this is for either dash cancelling it or actually trying to hit with it.
no idea, lol. i think that is just the range where bison is weak to air. maybe before he gets to that spot, try going air to air with him with an early j.hk? or try backdashing to reset the space between you and him. this might eat an option select hozanto or something though. or just teleport out to reset the distance. i dunno if the ex hozanto has enough range to option select against teleport. the problem with backdashing and teleporting is that he doesn’t have to go for the elbow drop and might just finish his jump, and then do a ex hozanto while you are in recovery. so yeah. lol.
You don’t anti-air Guy’s j.d+MP after he throws it out, it’s active until he lands. Dash under or dash back to hit him. You can’t always walk back because when the active hit box is out, you’re locked into a blocking animation.
Does guy automatically throw u or some shit when u try to hit him out of the air? his elbow priority and air throw (and air ground throw?) are fucking retarded. If you even try to focus backdash out of that shit u still get thrown it seems.
If no elbow drop, it can grab standing characters. It whiffs on crouching players. There’s basically a bushin flip trap that Guy can set up. I can’t see it coming from a mile away either. Just need to dash back, cuz I think teleports can get punished by dash xx slide or db+HK.
Yeah, it’s the same input for both moves. If you’re close he throws you, otherwise the elbow comes out. It’s a quasi option-select similiar to vega’s wall dive.
well I think can’t dash back either, I just eat this like 5 time in the roll offline if they time it correctly…
I think if you can trade with guy, is mostly in dic favorite isn’t it? I am not so sure but most dic normal is fast and painful.
anyone try to trade with elbow drop and see how it goes? maybe their next moves became more predictable since they will WANT TO stop trading with you for few good purple punch on the face.
You can backdash. It might only lose to EX-Bunshin, but if you crouch it, it won’t grab you, and if he elbows you then it’s not tracking a throw so you can back out of it.
thx, I go back and try again.
any lower level bison video with explanation for beginner? I really need to focus on it and dec/5/10 may be my first tourney ever (need some experience)
any idea for a rose slide?? and very good viper??
Had some time to reply to liluoke’s notes on the Guile matchup, and I basically agree.
A few of my own notes:
There is no way to get in against Guile unless you guess right, because none of your counters work on reaction. It’s not unwinnable by any means, but the fight is totally in Guile’s control.
Generally my strategy is to walk him into the corner and keep him there. I do NOT try to cross him up in the corner, even on knockdown, because that basically gives him a free pass to zone you again. I will only go for ambiguous crossups if he’s not close to the corner.
If Guile is far away when he follows his boom, your two general options is to:
- Block
- Walk forward and block
If you just block, Guile has to guess if you will punish his follow up normal with EX-PC or EX scissors (or nothing if you don’t have meter). PC is safer but you may not necessarily want to switch sides, while EX-scissors risks eating a throw, or a link combo into his stand fierce. You have the potential to lose more ground if you guess wrong. You also have the potential to gain a lot of ground if you guess right.
If you walk forward and block, you don’t risk much ground, but you don’t gain much either. your options are pretty limited.
If Guile isn’t right behind his sonic boom, you can FA dash the boom, or block and whiff punish if he’s stupid enough to whiff something in front of you. EX-PC and EX Scissors won’t work at this distance.
If Guile is close when he throws his boom, you’re generally near ideal space anyway.
For the most part I agree with this. Guile can’t do any significant damage off of lows if you’re far enough, so your best option is generally to give up space so that his air attack whiffs. Your goal is to prevent Guile from getting to the other side of you so you can push him to the wall. If Guile becomes predictable with jump-ins, you can generally just air-to-air him, because if he risks guessing air throw on his way down, you’ll be right in his face when he lands.
Once you get Guile to the corner, the game doesn’t end. Sonic boom will make st.mk and st.hk whiff at max distance because SB moves Guile’s hitbox backwards. However, they will beat his longer range options, including f+hp and b+hk. If you get in range where st.mk and st.hk won’t whiff, you now have to contend with his st.hp, which will beat both of your pokes. If he whiffs st.hp, you can whiff punish, so it boils down to footsies, where you generally have an advantage. cr.lk and st.lk also beat his buttons if you get into that range. The corner is where Bison works best, so you have to try to take full advantage here.
Also keep in mind, if you manage to get a decent lead, just back off. There’s no sense in chasing Guile and playing into his game if you don’t have to.
I choose U2 in this matchup, because even if you don’t ever actually land it, it forces Guile to change his SB timing so that he’s not predictable. If he fakes or changes his timing, that just gives you the opportunity to walk forward even more. I’ve landed U2 on Guiles who have been sloppy and predictable about their SBs.
That’s all I have off the top of my head, I might add more when I have the time.
Feel free to add any thoughts.
edit: ugh wall of text. I might reformat when I get a chance.
agree, guile game was nasty but since if they turtle a lot, maybe I think is like 6/4 not the 7/3, but if they good at guess and get few trap on you and turtle out yeah that is like 7/3, since the pace will get so fked up and you can almost have non choice but to chase him to win the game (if your HP is lower than his), that is dirty but effective for guile:
think about it, the bison almost win on any other degree on chip damage/speed/ability to cross up, even wake up option.
so it left guile few clear route that once open up the bison and deal damage, go turtle can make them win EASY since guile is very very good at turtle, you go to him, you already lose half.
and chip damage on SB is way less than we think, the problem is follow up from SB, so basically if he chip you 1 SB, just give them few good landing scissor you guys being almost equal, and I LOVE EX HS AT CORNER, turtle player will go OUCH THAT EX DAMAGE IS THAT MUCH EVEN ON CHIP? yeah that is right, 1 EX HS LAND ON CORNER CHIP is like 100 blocked SB??
he want to chip you with SB, go DR and stay good range(for turtle player only)and chip him with DR few times for HS set up, don’t follow SD is not worth it, just safe chip rinse+repeat for awhile than that guile will found he is in other side of corner and can’t deal good chip to you AT ALL and he is losing(time like 40sec something left sometime? if they smart it should be like 60+)
mix DR/HS and safe scissor, if your HS is not so predictable and is not full screen, you can caught them like 1 or 2 for their boring SB pattern, then chip them with Scissor, and most I do is neutral jump for jump in happy guile, nj.mk or fierce can make them think, even TRADE with him with your s.hp is not so bad since is in YOUR FAVORITE.
SB just annoying that is about all, and being harder to punish since it get fast(fastest maybe?) recovery.
guile foot sweep is so bad that c.lpxx is like free thanksgiving meal, and cross up PC at point blank is like free too unless they got U2.
so full turtle is like 6/4 to bison, just boring but na I play it before, real deal is those HP calculation dudes, just give you few real hit and trade to make sure they win for few good wake up trap and turtle out for remind sec, that is in my opinion most dangerous guile since in tourney they are like EVERYWHERE…
Well, here’s a couple.
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[media=youtube]HkiJPoYSbDs"[/media] There are a ton of Bison safejumping videos on youtube almost for every character. Be sure to check them out!
And for last… a couple of option selects, if you feel like steppin’ up. [media=youtube]5qa3KUbotmc"[/media]
Usually Rose Slide is followed up by throw or backdash. I believe an ex-reversal will beat either. I usually just crouch tech it. I think since Rose is +1 at max range, you can get frame trapped or counterhit with her move that low crushes. Be careful against her but if she doesn’t have Ultra, just RTSD.
Got a question about the Rog matchup chaps:
What do you guys do after blocked turn punch and/or Dash Striaght? Is Rog on massive frame advantage after those or something? Seems like everything I try I still get tagged by a Cr jab. I try blocking but then it turns into me just holding down back up close at all times.
I is it safe to backdash immediately after blocking it? Does Ex PC have a sufficiently low startup to stuff the coming jab? Lastly, in the corner, is it best just to block/tech and wait for an escape attempt?
Cheers gents.
It really depends on spacing. Level 1/2/3 TP can all be spaced safely. Higher is unsafe. LP dash upper can be spaced to + frames, MP can be spaced safe, HP is always unsafe. I don’t know if you can backdash … I would guess he can OS sweep.
The best thing you can do is keep him off your shit with c.MK/s.MK/s.RH and occasional well-spaced scissors.
If Rog hits you with the tip of those moves, he’s safe. You can only punish lp dash straight with a c.lk if he hits you from up close, but TAP lvl 1 is safe on block no matter the distance. If Rog makes you block TAP, he can tag your backdash with a follow up dash punch that will knock you down from the air. If you block a safe dash punch, a backdash is safe, since you’ll be out of range.
EX PC (or EX scissors) will not catch a followup jab, or for that matter, any jab. That’s one way Rog can bait you to waste meter needlessly.
If the Rog you’re facing knows how to auto correct ultra1, you can’t escape the corner with EX-PC. Just be patient.
Generally you should stay out of his jab range unless you have momentum (knockdown or frame advantage). Rog can’t do anything to you but chip you if you stay at the edge of his dash punch range. EX moves can be thrown, and everything can be EX-PC’d. Learn the spacing for mk scissors well, and you can trade chip damage with him, but you have an advantage since scissors knocks down.
After knockdown you’re free to safe jump, crossup, or meaty low.
This matchup boils down to good spacing.