It’s super slow so it’s pretty easy to either block, throw, or hit him out of it (ex psycho). Even if I cr. short the first part of it, I’m pretty sure I still have time to block the overhead.
It’s a command throw and I think it has little range. Don’t let him get close or jump out of it.
^^Yeah my buddy just told me the same thing. Guess I will just try to be a bit more defensive in that matchup
There’s two versions, the non-EX and EX versions, and they have slightly different setups, usually involving a cr.jab xx tenshin, maybe even close st. jab.
Non-EX tenshin works on a jab hit or block, so you can cr.short/throw/jump/reversal/backdash on block, only jump/reversal/backdash on hit
EX-Tenshin only works on block, but you can only jump/reversal/backdash. The thing is, Fei has to commit to the setup, so he can’t hit confirm into a combo. Therefore if you’re feeling yourself, you can let the jab hit, and the EX-Tenshin will whiff (because you’ll still be in hitstun)
EX-Tenshin also has better range, so there’s a range where Fei can only use EX-Tenshin because non-EX will whiff. That spacing comes with experience.
If he’s going for a naked Tenshin, you can do practically anything. The startup is hella slow.
really smokemax i tested the ex overhead (after two c.lp), it seemed to beat crouch teching actually if you are doing delayed crouch teching properly (you’d hit his armor and you wouldn’t have enough time to block). i was thinking the c.lp into ex overhead was used sort of like how bison uses st.hp after c.lk. guess i’ll take a look at it again.
i did notice if he pushed you farther out (with 3 jabs) he’d have to travel longer to get to you and you’d be able to recover in time even after your delayed c.lk came out. i then tested 2 jabs, then ex overhead and he didnt travel as far before his fist started coming down and was able to beat delayed crouch teching. give it a try and tell me if i’m wrong
Hmm I guess I’m usually not close enough to Rog to where I have to deal with a setup where he can jab once or twice and have charge to do ex-overhead. I know that some rogs like to do “cr jab, st. jab, ex-overhead” to mask the animation of the overhead. I’ll test it later and post my results, but I very rarely get hit by it and when I do, it’s always been my fault.
Anyone got some advice for Akuma.
Really struggle against his options.
From range he throws either a fireball or air fireball. If I block it, neutral jump it or Devils Reverse over it he simply does a demon flip over to me and starts pressuring me. I have to predict a Demon flip with a forward jump but its really risk, even more so after Akuma gets Demon. Once I’m on the ground I’m in mix up hell.
Outside of that I’m not even sure how to approach this match up. Can’t seem to out turtle him. Going after him seems to get me slaughtered as well.
Outside of health and maybe a slightly inferior throw, Akuma seems to be as good as Bison or better in every department. Footsies are as good if not better than Bison’s. His damage output is much higher. Better wake up game, and OS to counter Bison’s wake up game. His runaway is far superior. He has a good zoning game and an excellent offense. Not to mention a mix up from hell. I know his health is bad and people say if Akuma makes a mistake he gets punished hard, but Bison doesn’t have anything great to punish him with. END RANT
Besides bitching about him…what’s a good strategy…whinge about him more?.
Use more cr.MK against Akuma Azza. It works really well against him for some reason.
ok, so after a sk knockdown vs abel, you jump in immediately with j.hp. abel recovers before you land so the timing is slightly different. if he attempts a reversal EX TT, he’ll whiff. yeah, ok, sure alot abels know this, so they’ll delay their EX TT. to beat this, sure you can just neutral jump or backdash. if abel didn’t know he has to delay his EX TT, an OS throw beats it. but yeah, this is of course, retarded to expect an abel to not know this, but it is definitely a matchup specific knowledge not every abel might know - especially since EX tornado throw normally beats safe jumps.
EDIT: ^ this mimics the “anti shoryuken” jump in after a untechable knockdown. if you do a standard safe jump against abel (ie like you’re safe jumping chun or bison), you will get EX TT every time. if you walk forward a little more and do this “anti shoryuken” jump in with j.hp, you will beat all versions of the EX TT. however, if you do this jump in, he can EX roll forward, or backdash. to beat EX roll forward, OS throw. to beat backdash, OS roundhouse. once you start OS throw or roundhouse, EX TT will beat your throw or roundhouse in their startup frames.
in the corner, an abel might attempt an ex roll to get out. you can os a throw to beat that too off of jump in after sk knockdown.
any tips on playing wakeup game vs abel?
I’m probably not catching something here but why would I ever safe jump Abel? Its not like he has a 3 frame invincible wake up move.
What I do is a deep j.hp , if blocked; I delay my throw or bnb. I usually train Abel to tech like hell; I’ll even lose a couple of games, but once you start making them fear throwing a TT, you’ve just shutdown an integral part of there mix up which really tips the match in your favor at later stages in my opinion.
What can I do vs a chun who likes to nj.RH at the start of every round? It was killing me that I couldn’t find a reliable punish for it. It’s not a huge problem, but it limits my opening options and keeps me from moving forward.
i dunno if you other guys feel the same, but i think that one counter to neutral jumps is to time a forward jump so that you will be attacking them above their neutral jump attacking hitboxes. it’s likely they will land first so they will be able to block, backdash, or focus backdash but you will be able to start a blockstring. against characters without an invincible anti air special i think this is a nice option (i think vs ryu, etc, they will land first and can shoryuken you). i noticed this strategy used against me when i abused neutral jump to go over fireballs - they’d wait for me to start falling and then they jump in on me, and i have to block their block string and mixup. this same strategy can be used if the enemy jumps forward from far away and doesn’t have a shoryuken, you can time your jump so that your jump attack will go right at them when they land - but this only works if they don’t have a special move that can beat your jump in outright. i think because of bison’s extra slow jump this strategy for him doesn’t work as well.
i think characters can use a high anti air normal like (like bison’s j.hp or j.mp maybe) i think to beat this, but i think if chun is specifically using j.hk (even though its coverage is wide it is a relatively low attacking neutral jump move) you can probably wait for chun to start falling down so that she can’t use the n.hk to stuff your jump, and then jump in to start a blockstring or force her to backdash and be on the defensive anyhow.
Inthul thinks Bison is one of Fei’s hardest matchups.
^ yea i saw that too. i haven’t had any consistent fei practice partners so i can’t really comment. haha.
anyways, as suggested by m16, here is a repost of my matchup notes vs guile:
there are a few opportunities to get in on him.
edit: if you read my shit about jumping in as the round begins, that shit is wrong. he can lp sonic boom and jump up and air throw you on reaction as the round begins. just don’t do it.
you need to walk him into the corner as he sonic booms and tries to bait you to jump. never jump because it may end up with an air throw that will give him an entire other side of the screen to chip you with sonic booms again. if you are good at walking and blocking, he will eventually slowly be pushed into the corner. to avoid this situation, he has to either
if he tries to frame trap you after you block the first sb, ie. with a s.hk, you can block the sb, and depending on how much gap there is, you can focus dash through the s.hk and dash in throw and begin to okizeme guile.
if he tries to jump in on you after the sonic boom, i’m not really sure what is the best option yet but i think spacing yourself out so that his jump attack will whiff is very important. when he is on the floor, he might sonic boom again to try to push you back or something or begin an offensive with his normals, which is somewhat of an opportunity. i’m not sure what a guile might think to do at this point, but it’s important to avoid a blockstring starting with jump in. if the guile throws a sonic boom in very close range, you can focus dash through and he won’t recover in time to throw out his random normals to stuff your dash - but this only works really close and a smart guile probably won’t do this…
if you don’t have time to space yourself backwards to get his jump attack to whiff, you might be able to try a neutral jump right before the sonic boom gets to you so that when he lands from his jump in, you can begin a block string of your own. i dont know how good of an option this is honestly because i think you might eat a flash kick. i have to test this crap.
one more piece of advice is that a backthrow is something you really want to avoid from guile. if you’ve pushed him this far into the corner, a backthrow is the most simple way guile can ruin all your hard work. be careful if you smell a tick throw coming. of course a good guile will know to exploit this and will frame trap your crouch teching lol. airthrow = backthrow, so any ex headstomp or devil’s reverse too close to guile puts you at heavy risk for losing all your hard earned work pushing him to the corner as well.
if guile likes to do backfists or rolling sobat backwards (to regain charge), these two moves are vulnerable to slide, although there is risk of course in doing this.
if guile is foolish enough to be close to your corpse and throw a sonic boom after he has knocked you down, you have a rare opportunity to ex scissor in on him (usually ex scissor is a terrible move against him for reasons that i don’t want to type out)
finally, if he uses his anti air c.hp and resets you, if you are close enough after the reset you also can do risky ex scissor if he decides to meaty sonic boom you or meaty normal you. a focus dash at close range is also a risky option that can work.
these are most of my notes on getting in on guile, if anyone has anything to chime in on what i’ve said i’d appreciate it (especially if you find it retarded - please tell me why and what you’d do instead). what i’ve said above is part of the result of rewatching my replays and taking notes for several hours, so i’ve really put some work into it - let me know what you think.
I get beat by random Feis. I’m not comfortable with that match up at all. But after LK Knee Press on block, c.MP seems to nail Fei if they try to mash c.MP and ours reaches further. Not sure about c.HP. It’s 1f slower than Bison c.MP so if it’s perfectly done, you’ll stuff it every time together.
This is probably already known but I learned last night Bisons crouching jab isn’t too bad vs Cammy against her Cannon Strikes.
Can someone elaborate on this dive kick OS people are discussing? I wasn’t aware Bison had one of these of any use.
It’s an option, but any good cammy will adjust and screw you over. I think like all cr. jabs beat Cammy’s dive kicks (except EX?). In any case, if you use it too much, I’m pretty sure she’ll just dive kick from a higher angle, beating out the jab and comboing you. Of course, in a perfect world, you’d see that and st. hk or focus it, but I personally don’t ahve the reflexes for that.
Well interesting fact about Cammy’s dive kicks. You block any of them done from above waist height there abouts and you can throw her after. She doesn’t maintain the frame advantage the higher up it is done.
Interesting. SmokeMaxX I bellieve chainable jabs are easier than most against her dive kick pressure since you can pretty much just mash it out if need be. So it’s pretty good for a lot of the cast.
any suggestion for mirror?
What you do most if you being pressure and push back?
1)EX PC/EX DR on reaction
2)block, and tec
3)whiff a normal
My mix up really sucks, all I can do just beat random people and never able hold pressure when good player throw out to me…
try reading my critique my scissor kick strategy thing, i wrote about some weaknesses in scissor kick pressure that you can try