Actually to beat it, the timing is entirely dependent on the bison’s timing of the fierce, and the spacing. Thats why good guile’s shy away from using it when its ambiguous
Hmmm… I’ll have to try that out. I’ve been beating it lately, but I always thought it was due to incorrect anti-airing by the Guile. Anyway, that’s besides the point.
I’m super salty about the following matchups:
Chun, Honda, and Balrog (but mainly the first two).
Chun is just super annoying and I find it really difficult to anti-air her because her floatiness, angle, and high priority jumpins either throw off my timing/spacing or just beat my anti-air. I’ve resorted to crouch fierce, but if I mess up on the timing, I eat big damage. I guess that’s my fault, but I think it’d be nice to get an anti-air faster than 12 frames. Also, her cr. lk nullifies my scissor kick pressure as well as her other amazing normals. Let’s not even talk about her sweep. Even though I don’t think the matchup is amazingly uneven (like 7-3 or anything), it’s super frustrating and I honestly don’t have the patience for it.
Honda- It is impossible for me to beat a good Honda. I pretty much block a headbutt and I lose the game. Bison/Honda is like a turtling match against the best turtle in the game. SUPER annoying. Oh and heaven forbid I try to Ex-Psycho out of the corner and he decides to do a lp headbutt which stuffs it and is safe. I know, it’s my fault for doing that, but I wish it at least forced an Ex-headbutt out of him. No but seriously, if Honda counter-pokes you, you eat like 300 damage off jab HHS. No jumping allowed. Very little wakeup pressure allowed. So much frustration in this matchup.
Balrog- Annoying match. Not as annoying as Chun and I think it’s roughly 5-5, but I just feel like Balrog has the best tools that actually matter.
Hmm giefs st. mp seems to beat out my pokes …
Gief has to throw out st.mp as a guess to stuff your pokes. Whiff punish with st.mk.
i dunno if you guys feel the same way, but i think the key to the chun matchup is finding combinations of your own moves or her moves that put you at the range where she expects that she can poke you (ie. to stuff your scissor kick startup) and focus dashing through to throw into corner. if she starts to neutral jump instead of poking you because it beats both scissor kick and dashing in, be ready to run away to a favorable position if you can or block the incoming mixup. next time she tries this, you can try a risky air to air early roundhouse or bait the neutral jump and ex headstomp to reset her and regain momentum but it’s a high risk option i think.
when the game first begins i again usually try my best to get her in the corner with a smart fadc dash through and throw into the corner - i feel that without ex sbk this is the best time to play your wakeup games. in the corner, her long pokes give her a slight edge against scissor kick pressure (as opposed to a character with relatively short pokes like ryu). the standard corner scissor pressure is walk back-> scissor (to get out of range of shorts/jabs, or crouch block when you are out of range of her shorts/jabs). she’ll eventually get smart and punish your walk back or scissor kick startup with her long ass pokes so mix up c.lkxxscissor (when close, but this is risky because you risk a trade with that short you were talking about and losing the momentum) and c.mkxxscissor intelligently to stuff her pokes. get ready to roundhouse her hazanshus or jump outs but be wary that if you are too far your roundhouse will whiff and her low pokes (which are actually slower than your roundhouse so you can beat them at close range, ideally out of her jab range) will destroy you.
like alot of other matchups, i feel this is a match most convincingly won in the corner, especially though since her footsies are so good. anyways i’m sure you guys all know this already, i just wanted to contribute this in case you guys felt differently.
It’s pretty homosexual that meaty Sakura LK Tatsu on wake up beat a lot of Bison stuff.
Give him free wakeup, he deserves
yeah a well timed lk tatsu from her beats psycho lol that’s some crazy shit.
HAHA, that’s the Bison forum.
I think I was the only bison player looking for nerfs for balance’s sake. Not anymore. Just give him that damn overhead scissors lk…
Nerfs for balance? I mean, he really only beats the bottom tier and slightly edges out some of the shotos. I guess if Capcom wants Bison to be less than mid-tier then they can nerf him. I mean he’s high tier now, but barely IMO.
I gotta agree with you man I still don’t agree with the place he is at on the tier list. He still has the same bad MU’s from vanilla and he only got a few tools more to work with in super, In my experience against seasoned shotos option selects kill bison. You can block the coming mix ups but I get frustrated after I block multiple jump ins and there is not much I can do about their jump in fierce. I hope they do not nerf bison but I’m not holding my breath.
in my experience, option selects introduce an interesting mindgame. os srk will beat ex psycho, ex headstomp, ex scissor and ex DR, but you will get out with any teleport, and os hurricane beats back teleport, but loses to all the above ex reversals. forward teleport will escape you out of both os srk and os hurricane (credit to m16 for posting up a nice video/explanation on this), but will lose to the shoto using no option select (leaves you wide open for a huge combo into ultra). OS ex hurricane probably beats ex psycho and maybe ex scissor, but i’m sure all other escape options work.
i like mix it up by blocking the first hit and escape when he tries to frame trap your crouch tech with a teleport or something, but it’s important to not get too obvious or they’ll just jump instead of trying to frame trap you and then you eat a huge combo.
but yeah man, i think people misunderstand what the tier list means. tier list really doesn’t mean who is the best character, it means who has the most favorable matchups (this is how they calculate it, after all). the several outliers (guile, etc) really blow bison up but because the cast list is so huge their statistical effect on his tier ranking is masked. the reality is that during a tournament you don’t see every character represented, so all of his favorable matchups are less meaningful and his “tournament tier list”, using the characters that are most seen at tournaments (i’ve yet to see something like this) must drop alot.
even so, there are alot of 6-4 matchups on the tier list in favor of bison that i don’t really agree with - this probably has something to do with the pools of players they use to draw up the results to create this list. did they use a small sample size (is 4000 really that much?)? what about the skill levels of the players - this is probably the largest factor unaccounted for, and is also incredibly hard to control, unfortunately.
in my personal opinion, some 6-4 matchups are statistically insignificant and are actually just 5-5 and depend on the skill levels of the players (ie. they are not true 6-4 matchups). 6-4 is kind of a grey area because while i’d agree bison has an advantage against viper for example, i really don’t think that it’s 6-4 bison vs ryu and this is a matchup that depends on skill level of the players.
ps. i gotta stop writing essays when i post. nobody reads this bullshit lol!
Yeah it’s definitely not easy when they use their option selects wisely I always try to keep at least one bar of EX before I get jumping fierce to the face. Because when you don’t have EX they will be fishing for the teleports many players have told me I’m patient and I make an effort to try not to crack under pressure, I’ll never forget the time I was facing this very good ken. I decided to forward teleport I had not done this move the whole set and I ate an U1 his reactions were god like. But I do try to keep it as unpredictable as possible while taking bold risks when necessary.
When you are getting pressured though I feel they do have the upper hand at the same token since I have not been playing street fighter seriously for a long period of time like some others players, I know I have a lot of experience to gain also I never crouch tech because I hate it lol but I get blown up when I predict a throw wrong and eat a reversal lol. a match up I find really hard aside from the guile/chun/boxer/honda is fei long the only way I seem to be able to win that match is to get life lead and turtle and no EX psycho’s because if fei blocks I eat that rekka combo.
yea fei long is an interesting matchup. i actually don’t know it too well, so i wanna ask this question about fei’s rekka pressure to clarify.
I. fei can do a proper distanced rekka: [media=youtube]f17qEQb-TGI&feature=related#t=0m54s[/media]
a. if he goes for this, he has two options:
[INDENT]i) do rekka #2 immediately. you will be in stun so you can’t press anything, and if done properly you cant punish (if too close, you can with c.lkxxscisor)
ii) counterhit your punish attempt:[/INDENT]
[INDENT][INDENT]1) wait and then do rekka #2. if you tried to counterattack with c.lk (ie. you thought the rekka wasn’t properly distanced), he can cancel the recovery of the first rekka into the second as a frame trap.[/INDENT]
[INDENT]2) ??[/INDENT][/INDENT]
Yo you can focus back dash DP OS
Don’t reversal special moves break focus?
^^ The OS (in this case a DP) won’t come out if you focus the initial attack.
oh yea something pretty important i didn’t see posted in the balrog matchup advice on the first page was that ex overhead is a crouch tech killer in blockstrings, sort of like cammy’s tkcs. if he has ultra and 1 meter it’s pretty tempting for them to try this especially if they’ve been conditioning you with tick throws, so get ready to throw him instead. but yeah… sure everybody knows this already lol
Is there a wayy to avoid Feilong’s dumb leg move? The one where he wraps his leg around you and goes over your back. I keep gettin owned by that shit…so annoying.