^good point
edit: do you even play anymore m16? we used to play so much but you got sucked into WoW ._.
yah i still play, but i’ve been mostly playing offline, splitting my time with sc2.
i’d add you back on live, but from what i gather your list is full?
i can ALWAYS make room for m16ghost… i havent forgotten how helpful our matches were back in the days. ill send you a friend request.
hey guys, as i’m going to a tournament soon, i’ve been asking most of the character subforums on how they punish bison’s escape options, including ex psycho, ex dr, ex hs (not really an escape option but whatever), and teleport. I felt it was worthy to know so I can be as informed as possible when i’m knocked down and trying to pick the optimum escape option.
while i’m sure many of you know what to look out for, and there is indeed an EX Psycho crusher safe reversal guide, that post has to deal mostly with punishes to the ex psycho on block, and doesn’t include options that beat the ex psycho crusher outright (like chun’s meaty df roundhouse, option select c.hk or s.hk on jumpin, or ryu’s os dp, or ex hurricane on wakeup). this section will include character options vs all of bison’s escapes. so again, while alot of this is common knowledge among the pros, i am sure some of us non-regular tournament goers can benefit from a list like this.
i’m gonna copy and paste the answers as they come in here, so check for edits. note this guide is incomplete. in particular, you might want to check out the cody guide because an awesome member from option-select.com there decided to write a very in-depth report for this topic. i was lucky enough to have some high profile players respond, so please take a look.
What should we look out for?: Answers each character has to outright beat via option select or other method, or punish bison’s escape options: EX Psycho crusher, EX DR, and Teleport
Abel
Spoiler
1. Dustlooper: When you knock Bison down, an easy option select to allow pressure, but avoid risk is to just jump in with MK, then OS a short roll. So let’s look at the option tree.
Block- Abel creates contact, can continue pressure
EX Psycho Crusher- Abel rolls through harmlessly, Bison escapes.
EX Scissor Kick- Abel rolls through harmlessly, Bison escapes.
EX Headstomp- Abel rolls through harmlessly, can punish on landing
EX Devil’s Reverse- Abel rolls through harmlessly, Bison escapes
Teleport Back- Abel rolls into Bison, can punish
Super- Abel can block, punish
Ultra 1- Abel can block, punish
Ultra 2- Abel can just jump out, punish
Backdash- Bison can punish the roll, but Bison pretty much has to know it’s coming. If he reads the OS, and starts doing this, you’ll have to switch up.
2. Mafamaticks: What he said. Also, if you land a FS you can lk roll behind him and back in front to ruin his charge for EX Psycho Crusher & EX Scissor kicks.
3. Jeron:
As far as escape options go, Abel can punish every single one of Dic’s options. Devil Reversal gets jump fierced, teleport gets punished with dash in standing fwd into dash in big damage combo by abel with a knockdown which you have to guess on wakeup… Ex stomp works until the abel player adapts to it and walks under and punishes.
EX psycho is good until Abel has Ultra then that move gets eliminated as an escape.
The key is to rush Abel down as much as possible before he gets ex meter. When the match gets full screen is when Abel will build meter with whiff air throw. You can match it with short scissors or ex psycho but if he blocks it with one meter you have to guess whether hes gonna ex command grab your offense or wait for you to do something.
ie: the bison player does ex psycho and jumps straight up to bait ex command grab and the Abel meets him with a Air to Air fierce. Stuff like that.
Jumping is never an option for either opponent in this matchup
Bison has the solid ground pokes to keep abel from rushing just dont poke too much otherwise they will read with a focus dash in command grab. The matchup would be even but greater health and better knockdown options better mixups rush etc. is what makes this match a little in Abels favor.
Akuma
Spoiler
**1. Credit: superlollo **
os hp or mp srk beats ex PC, backdash and ex devil reverse…ex headstomp will make the srk whiff, same for the teleport (if you teleport you can punish the whiffed OS srk with U2)
os hk tatsu will sometimes beat ex PC, will beat teleport and backdash and will be safe if you do ex pc or ex headstomp.
- On an untechable knockdown or any knockdown if he is positioned correctly, Akuma can angle his demon flip dive kick to hit bison’s EX Psycho crusher tail and beat it.
Balrog (boxer)
Spoiler
Credit: eldruz, dynicksty, and 3nigmat1c
Originally Posted by eldruz
I was in training mode, trying to find a way to punish Dictator’s EX Psycho Crusher on block with no Ultra.
I found that if i blocked it from about c.MK distance, I could HK Dictator once he crossed me up. And while I was trying to perfect my timing for this, I accidentally got an EX Dash Upper which connected, but I haven’t been able to repeat it.
If anyone knows a way to reliably put that out, Boxer could punish a blocked EX Psycho Crusher with a loop for a damaging combo, provided he has a charge.
Edit: Okay so I did some testing, and I was able to pull it out only from right outside sweep distance, by doing b,f,b KK once Dictator crossed me up, and it connects with a standing dictator only if you block the Psycho Crusher very late so it’s not that useful but could still lead to a big damaging combo if you get the timing and the distance right.
This will end my testing of EX Psycho Crusher’s punishers for now, with the following results:
- Ultra 1. If blocked early you have to delay it a bit so it doesn’t come as a reversal.
- HB. Doesn’t work if you’re too close to Dictator, you have to be at about c.LK distance.
- EX Dash Upper, if you blocked the Psycho Crusher far away from its startup.
- HK from c.MK distance.
- After a safe-jump, given enough back charge all of these options are valid against an ex.pc. Regular’s can be grabbed, and obviously this is a poor wake-up option given its startup and disadvantage on successful block. Ex.dr, is a much better wake-up option against rog because it can break back-charge by crossing him up twice, but its effectiveness depends on the rog you’re playing. That is a getaway tool, ex.pc is useless, unless its done on your ops wake-up (with its ability to cross-up), or for chip damage.
FYI, ex.pc has the same number of invincbility frames as rufus Ultra 2, so invincible specials with non-reversal timing should win point blank. Ultra 1 and super will always air juggle though since he’s not grounded until the end.
Teleport can be beat by an O\S Jump-in TAP. It’ll lose to the teleport in place though since balrog should pass through bison and can be thrown etc.
Blanka
Spoiler
1. Illitirit: I don’t how easy it is to auto-correct EX Psycho, but Blanka will usually just go for the cross-up and can do OS hop to land right in front of Bison’s teleport. Bison will recover in time to block st.lp xx electricity but I haven’t yet tested if he can tech a throw attempt (comes out 1f faster than the st.lp).
Chun Li
Spoiler
Chun Li can do a meaty D+F Roundhouse (cross up flip kick) to beat bison’s ex psycho crusher.
Chun can do option select c.hk or s.hk off of a safe jump in to beat EX Psycho crusher on wakeup.
Cody
Spoiler
credit to: HunterSFL
Short answer: Cody doesn’t need to OS Bison’s wakeup, everything is pretty punishable on reaction, so you basically just safe jump him and block. OSing EX Zonk isn’t really useful because it will avoid EX PC, but then Cody can’t punish, and if Bison does an EX Devil’s Reverse, he can see the EX Zonk, and then move backwards into a position to actually punish the Zonk with the Reverse. So again, better to just safe jump and block, rather then OS something.
Since you mentioned it first, to start with, EX PC. Cody can punish with U2 after blocking it point blank. He has to time it non-reversal, though, otherwise he’ll hit Bison out of the air, so it takes a few minutes in training mode to learn the timing. Without Ultra, Cody can still punish it with EX RK (reversal timing) after blocking point blank.
Against a reversal Headstomp or Devil’s Reverse, both can be beaten by b.MP, though timing is fairly tight (but not at all unreasonable) to beat the Headstomp. Devil’s Reverse can also be beaten by other things like Zonk, and I think also c.MK, so overall, it’s pretty weak against Cody. Additionally, if Bison does the Reverse to escape pressure, then holds backwards with the attack portion to simply escape, I’m pretty sure Cody can punish by dashing forward once or twice into EX RK or U2, but don’t quote me on that, I need to check it.
Against Teleport, obviously U2 or any RK will punish that, though honestly, it’s probably your best bet, because it requires the fastest reaction time to punish if the Cody is safe jumping and not OSing. I’m pretty sure t.HK will reach far enough to punish it as well, which is a much easier move to react with then RK or Ultra (because of the inputs), but I’d need to test that as well.
I haven’t really taken the time to test the things I mentioned because basically, I only play bad Bisons, and every bad Bison thinks EX PC is god’s gift to street fighter, and don’t use any other reversal options. So I’m actually glad you brought this up, because now that we’re talking about it, I’m gonna test it next time I have the game on.
Edit: Got me interested enough to turn my game on, lmao. Ok, here’s some more detail on the stuff I was unsure of.
First off, I had no idea that if you OS U2 on a deep jump in, it will beat EX PC clean, while Bison is still on the ground, and you get the full animation. I thought Bison was considered airborn way faster then he actually is.
EX Devil’s Reverse: Even if Bison holds back the entire time, he can’t get far enough away to make this safe. Cody can dash once on reaction to the Reverse, and then Ultra or EX RK Bison as he comes down. If Bison moves back slightly, but not all the way, he can make it so when Cody dashes, he’s directly above him, so when the Ultra activates, Bison can still float back to the other side, but if Cody EX RKs, they’ll just both be safe.
EX Headstomp: b.MP is a little easier then I thought against this. I knew I had done it plenty of times, but I assumed the timing was tight because the Headstomp has a crazy strong hitbox. Now that I see it in training mode, I see that it’s 100% free to b.MP, very little timing required. If Cody blocks the Headstomp for some reason though, Bison can hold back and get across the screen way faster then Cody can dash up to punish, so that’s safe.
Also note that the Skull Diver followup is 100% free to b.MP as well. Though again, there’s really no reason Cody should block the Headstomp to begin with.
Upon seeing the EX Reverse/Stomp, Cody can b.MP with the timing that assumes it’s a Headstomp, and still have time to dash -> Ultra if it whiffs due to it being a Reverse, and not a Headstomp. This timing is extremely tight however, if the Reverse is activated as soon as possible, so it might not be worth going for, if Cody isn’t sure it will hit. Also, if the Reverse is activated as soon as possible, without Ultra, Cody can’t hit it with an EX RK if he’s already attempted the b.MP assuming it was a Headstomp.
So overall, that’s the bad news (for you, the Bison player). The good news is, Teleport is…ridiculous.
Basically, if the Teleport isn’t OSed against, it’s gonna be safe. Even when I knew it was coming, significantly decreasing my reaction time, I still couldn’t punish it on reaction with a RK, so to react to it when you aren’t sure it’s coming, is definitely impossible.
But it gets worse.
The timing of this shit is magical. Nothing Cody would normally OS works. OS U2 does not work. It dodges the Dust part of the Ultra, and then Bison recovers before the wrenches part, and can block. Cody can delay his jump in so that the OS U2 comes out later, and then it will work (the last spec of dust catches Bison and the wrenches combo), but with this timing, the Ultra catches an EX PC in the air instead of on the ground… Even if there’s a perfect timing that will work against the Teleport and still catch the EX PC on the ground, it’s not worth it because it would be too hard to get the timing, without a perfect setup for it.
OS EX RK does not work against Teleport either! Not even OS LK RK! Everything is too fast! It reaches Bison when he’s still invincible from the Teleport, and then stops hitting by the time he’s recovering. OS Zonk also does not work because it does not go far enough. Same with OS t.HK. OS LP and MP Bad Stone are barely too slow to work as well, and even though HP Stone works, it’s got too little frame advantage to combo anything afterwards.
And now for the truly depressing part: OS EX Bad Stone works…but then if Cody Ultras afterwards, the Dust hits, and it looks like Bison is clearly in range for the wrench hits…but he’s not. The first one just barely whiffs, and he can block the rest.
But, there is salvation for Cody, yet. Just like when Cody blocks a Blanka Ball, he can buffer the Ultra motion, and then walk forward for a few frames, and then activate the Ultra. Thanks to the extra long hit stun on EX Rocks, it’s still easy to combo, the only hard part is buffering the motion before the walk, but it’s not as hard as it sounds.
Without Ultra, Cody can also see the EX Rocks come out, and then combo into an EX RK for another knockdown, though it’s a little expensive, costing 50% meter. But it is pretty nice damage and stun, and will definitely scare the shit out of the Bison player.
So yeah, now the real tl;dr:
Cody has to choose what to do, based on what he predicts will come. There’s no 1 single OS that beats or is at the very least safe against all of Bison’s options. The two main options seem to be Safe jump vs OS EX BS. I wouldn’t OS U2, because it’s way too risky. EX Headstomp, EX Reverse, Teleport, even backdash all make the Ultra fail. It will really only work against EX PC.
Cody can do the following:
Safe Jump
"Beats" EX PC (U2, EX RK), EX Headstomp (b.MP), EX Reverse (lots of stuff).
“Loses to” Teleport (Cody cannot punish, but both characters are safe), Backdash.
OS EX Bad Stone
Beats Teleport, Backdash, EX Reverse (Cody recovers in time to b.MP, or whatever else if Bison tries to punish the EX Bad Stone)
Loses to EX PC, EX Headstomp
And for the sake of completeness, here are some other options, that beat very specific options:
OS U2
Beats EX PC
Loses to just about everything else
OS Zonk
Avoids EX PC (both characters are safe)
Loses to just about everything else
OS HK RK
Beats EX Reverse, Backdash
Loses to EX PC
Avoids EX Headstomp (both chars are safe)
Deejay
Spoiler
1. No_cigar: DJ can get close to Bison and cr. LP > cr. LP o-s cr. HK which beats his teleport. But it loses to EX Psycho Crusher.
DJ can also punish EX Psychocrusher, but only from midscreen, not up close and he needs charge. He can do auto correct U2 and punish it when it passes through.
Bison beats DJ pretty good though, so I don’t think you should have much trouble with him. Just don’t jump in on wakeup, go for ground meaties, cuz DJ doesn’t have a good answer to that, except backdash and block.
Dudley
Spoiler
**1. Sharin says: **Dudley can punish ex pc with mp mgb and rolling thunder. Dont abuse teleports against dudley because he can punish them on reaction/os with rolling thunder/ex mgb/duck whatever. Maybe do it once in a while when he is meterless, but dont abuse it or you will get punished hard.
2. MeLLoW says: EX Psycho Crusher is beaten with medium punch machine gun blow, or Rolling Thunder. As far as I know those are some of them…for teleport, he can punish you hard with st.hk xx EX MGB…or grab, cr.mk, cr.hk…or EX MGB itself if you teleport farther away. His EX Scizzors kick is punished with Rolling Thunder and any other flip kicks Bison uses on dudley…otherwise, Dudley’s really shutdown by those flip kicks. Bison’s air thing…with the purple fist (idk what it’s called) can be punished with EX MGB if you’re trying to fake out dudley…his Head stomp can be anti-aired with st.mk and cr.hk depending how on top Bison is on Dudley. Dudley can duck under psycho crusher if you’re trying to cross him up with it.
That’s some of the stuff I know to beat Bison.
El Fuerte
Spoiler
1. El Toro: If you do wake up EX PC we can punish with u1 but not u2 unless we’re standing far away from you on your wake up and you still ex pc. Yea theres an OS for your teleport j.fp input run in whatever direction, if you dont teleport fp will hit and we can mix up, if you teleport we run in the direction we inputted, typically people will run slide but if we’re quick we can go straight into rsf.
Fei Long
Spoiler
1. Nyoronoru: Most Fei players will simply block your EX Psycho Crusher and then punish with Fierce Rekkas to knock you down again.
For Devil’s Reverse, I usually just Focus it as you are coming down, or if you move backwards with it I will just wait as it resets the situation and moves you closer to the corner.
The better Fei players here will Rekka your teleports, I think. Or at least Chicken Wing to catch up to you.
2. Nosone: If you use U2, I’ll throw LK CW to:
a) Beat EX PC
b) Evade EX PC
c) Evade all other options
Only U1 will win against it I believe.
Also, wouldn’t OS cr.LK> Flame Kick or OS cr.MP> Flame Kick work? It’s only 8 frames of recovery if you do a meaty. The Flame Kick should catch you when your invincibility ends I think.
Of course, blocking is best.
Gen: needs testing
Spoiler
1. Warlike: Well, he can (mantis) super or ultra it afterwards, and otherwise I don’t think he has much to punish it or a useful OS. The only thing that I can think of that might beat it (not tested it myself so I dunno) is EX Gekiro kicks.\
Guile
Spoiler
1. Warahk: ex psycho crusher > safe jump, block and flash kick punish
ex devils reverse > dont know
teleport > jump in OS forward dash > throw
but bison loses this match to zoning, not offensive pressure
Guy
Spoiler
1. Blooddrunk: Jump in EX Tatsu or MK tatsu.
Depending on the time Guy blocks it he may be able to Run/Slide or EX Hozanto you before you recover If i recall
He can Bushin Flip and I think Izuna
Also isn’t it possible for Guy to grab him out of it with U2?
2. Duck Strong: Guy’s standard OS select off safejump is cr.lp then cr.lp+cr.hk to either nail a backdash or continue pressure. If timed perfectlyoff his normal safejump setup, I think this one would actually lose to EX PC because it has such slow startup. When safejumping Bison it’s actually a good idea to wait a split second (~8 frames) before jumping if you’re going for an OS.
If you’re not going for an OS, you can just safejump and react to all his reveral options fairly easily. EX PC can be punished by reversal run slide every time. EX DR and EX stomp both lose to cr.mk or EX Izuna or a well timed jump hp or blah blah blah (you get the idea). Blocked EX scissors is a free combo and teleport can also be punished with either run slide or ex Hozanto if you’re on point.
Basically, Bison sucks on wakeup (he’s my main too) despite all his wakeup options. If I was going to option select him and was expecting a reversal, I’d actually jump in late, block for a split second, and then hold upforward to catch either jumping options and nail the teleport. The only options this wouldn’t cover would be him doing nothing (big risk, I’ll admit) or a back teleport (which they would probably never do because it’s indredibly risky to begin with).
The most likely outcome would be an EX PC which you’ll block and punish with run slide to setup another safe jump.
Hope that helps.
3. Obey562: you can also OS a lp or mp shoulder to go through the Psycho crusher, but its not as reliable as mk or ex.tatsu, IME
I also found a really good OS against viper after scoring a knockdown. it’ll be in a new OS video I’m working on
str[e]ak: The timing for this OS EX Bushin Senpukyaku setup is different than the one that you’re accustomed to performing. Here’s a video that shows the OS EX BSK not hitting the wake up EX Psycho Crusher:
[media=youtube]EeXbh3e-REY[/media]
And, here’s a video that shows the OS EX BSK hitting the wake up EX Psycho Crusher:
YouTube - Safe Jump OS EX Bushin Senpukyaku (Hit): [media=youtube]jrQPiLaHjdU[/media]
In short, you’re press the MK button earlier to get the EX BSK to hit.
(note from duckstrong: however, EX Headstomp beats both. obey562 says: regarding the bison tatsu OS, a mk.tatsu will hit his EX.PC and it avoids headstomp.)
Hakan
Spoiler
1. Realpolitix: Hakan can OS Ultra 2 to beat out Devil’s Reverse, Scissors Kick, and PC, but it will lose to teleports. Hakan can also cover teleports with both Oil Dive and Slide. He can punish point blank EX-PC’s with Oil Slide. Be very careful when he has U2 on both his and your wake-up.
Ibuki
Spoiler
Nothing yet, although it is likely OS neckbreaker can beat some options like teleport, etc. needs testing.
Juri
Spoiler
1. Ryuga:
She can jump-in OS EX Pinwheel/Senpusha (vs ex psycho)
**BeaM: **There’s also that one OS, remember with the cr.mk xx fuhajin store? I think the cr.mk passed clean under EX PC. (assuming this is on safe jump in)
Ken
Spoiler
-
Credit: Joutai
OS DP > EX Psycho
OS U2 > Teleport
**Credit: BeaM **
There’s also that one OS, remember with the cr.mk xx fuhajin store? I think the cr.mk passed clean under EX PC.
Makoto
Spoiler
1. Ninjacw: After a knockdown I just jump over him and he only has Devil Reverse and Teleport. I’ll do a meaty s.FK which will move me forward so that he has to use more meter to finish it, and if he does depending on my reaction I can do c.mk/Fukiage if he’s close or Ex Hayate (kara’d)/U2 if he goes far.
I don’t have much for teleport sorry 
Rose
Spoiler
1. Rose says:
OS Soul Satellite.
If you Spiral through it, it will do the weird hitbox thing and you will just end up living on opposite sides.
Rose can’t really do anything about it unfortunately. EX Devil’s Reverse can be Soul Thrown out of and Teleport can be baited for some damage :).
EX Psycho Crusher can only be Soul Satellited, Illusion Sparked, or throw him out of it, as well as some well time jb fierce.
If not, just block and punish it for Rose :).
Bison is a difficult match up for her (:
Ryu
Spoiler
1. Darthpaul1982: safe jump OS LP SRK beats EX DR and trades with EX PC, its the go-to move VS Bison, and teleport is answered by tatsu.
99% of Bisons play their wake-up game stupid. They do totally the wrong thing, which is :
-
When they dont have metre they use teleport, cause its the only option, right? Unfortunately the Ryu knows that and will OS tatsu everytime cause you cant do anything about it.
-
They use their EX escape options as soon as they get them. DERP! Thats kinda obvious too
What you should do is not use any escape option when you dont have metre, you should just block. Then when you DO have metre, do a teleport, because the Ryu will probably expect EX DR or EX PC, theyll hit SRK, but youll teleport and get out for free.
- Ryu can kill ex psycho outright with a ex hurricane kick on wakeup
Rufus
Spoiler
1. Latino Kourck: Off a safejump Rufus can punish with cr. fierce on block. (vs ex psycho)
ranmasama: vs psycho: rufus can also ex gt on block (vs ex psycho). Also U2 if they chose that. In some cases U1 works depending on distance. Even though ex psycho can get punished, it’s a hella good move to fuck up rufus rushdown. Just change up on when you do it.
Sagat
Spoiler
**credit to: Emblemlord: **
note: Also safe jump OS TU beats backdash, ex crusher, and ex scissors.
Wake-up options
Ex Scissor Kick - 13 frame start-up. Invincibility on frames 1-12. -8 on block. Easily baited with meaty low short. After that you can just go for the reversal TU for some easy respectable damage or go for low strong xx TU. Your timing needs to be good but you have 3 frames of leeway so you would really need to be slow to mess up this punish.
Ex Psycho Crusher - 14 frame start-up. Invincibility on frames 1-13. -16 on block. This is one of the breakthroughs I was talking about. This is baitable with meaty low short and then you can punish this with kara TU on block. The timing is strict. You have to be frame perfect, but honestly with a little practice it’s not that hard. I can do it consistently online and offline is even easier. Just bait with meaty low short and bloc So with this Dic just wasted meter only to be put back on the floor and eat 170 damage. Vicious.
Ex Headstomp - Another breakthrough. 22 frame start-up. The wiki doesn’t specify his invincibility frames, but he seems to have caught alot and they seem to last until the very end of his jump arc. But since this move has such a long start-up it’s easily avoided. Just f+hk when you see it and you will recover before him for a free punish. Just grab him since it would be really hard to fuck that up. For some reason when Dic lands from a whiffed air special his hitbox extends really far letting you grab him from greater range then normal.
Ex Devil’s Reverse - Start-up frames are 13. Also has a a good amount of invincibility like Ex Headstomp. Looks similar at their start-up but if he doesn’t land after you f+hk and you see his arm fly out you can TU him as he comes down or backdash or even FA him if he didn’t do the double hit Ex punch version on the way down. It’s a slightly better escape tool then the Ex Headstomp IMO, but not by much.
Teleport - Total frames are 42. Invincibility on frames 1-29. And yet another breakthrough. You can punish this on reaction with a f+hk or even a kara TU if you are fast enough. You would use the f+hk for the kara since it’s faster. But still f+hk by itself does 140 damage which is solid. You can also OS his teles with OS kara TU or OS mk TK. I usually don’t though since he could mix it up with ex crusher but if he has no meter and no Ultra I say go for it. He can’t do anything about it in this scenario. He would just have to block or eat the TK.
Super - LK version can hit you the other versions can’t. LK version has 6 start-up frames with 7 frames of invincibility. MK version has 12 start-up frames with 10 frames of invincibility. HK version has 16 start-up frames with 12 frames of invincility. They are all -27 on block so your go to punish would be low strong xx TU. If you have Ultra then tack on FADC f+hk Ultra. Last hit of Super hits low so remember that.
Ultra - Hits on frame 12. Has 16 frames of invincibility. This can’t hit you. This is -36 on block so you have years to punish. You could raw Ultra just make sure to delay it so you get the full Ultra and don’t put him into juggle state right away. You can also FA lvl 2 low strong xx TU. Nothing to fear from this move on wake-up.
Backdash - An ok backdash. 25 frames in total. Distance of 1.0. You can OS this with TU, but it would only cover the option of his backdash. Not worth it IMO. Anyway, he doesn’t go far with this. Still close enough for you to low short, TK for pressure or just dash back in his face for pressure. It’s nothing to be too concerned with, but if you are playing a backdash happy Dictator and he has no meter feel free to OS TU him or mix in some more cross-ups.
Best options
Backdash and Teleport
Basic gameplan
Make him fear the meaty low short. Once Dictator sees you punish an Ex crusher with Kara TU he will shit his pants. That kind of fear makes people second guess themselves and when that happens the fight is already over. If he doesn’t have meter start whoring grabs on wake-up as well as meaty TK traps to gain momentum and create guessing games. Once he has meter that’s when you bring out the meaty low shorts and punish w/e he does. Once he gets wise to this you can get a little riskier and go for grabs and overheads on his wake-up even when he has meter. Always be cautious though since he can choose to do a reversal and either hit you or escape if you grow too complacent or predictable. He can super you if he has the meter for it, but a good Dictator probably won’t wanna take such a huge risk AND lose all their meter for nothing if it gets blocked.
In the corner
No backdash, no teleport, and you shut down his other options as well. He will want out of that corner and he may even be willing to eat a kara TU for it and just go for a Ex psycho crusher. Hey man w/e free damage is always good right? Anyway, he will probably wanna block it out for the most part and be ready to tech. Counter this with overheads as well as tk traps. Try to draw out a reversal so you can punish. He will want to blow through your strings so he can escape the corner. Leave intentional gaps for him to get through and if he takes the bait, punish him hard. If he wants to just block then keep working him with grabs and overheads as well as tk pressure for chip damage. Dictator like all other chars with poor wake-up, dies a slow horrible death in the corner if you play your cards right.
Sakura
Spoiler
DanielRGT: You have to do the “meaty” LK tatsu later than you normally would to beat ex psycho crusher. If I had an Xbox I’d record the timing, but unfortunately I don’t. However, I do it 100% of the time so it’s something you can get down with practice once you figure out the timing.
CanadianDstryr: Fairly certain we OS teleports with sho or hk. tatsu, same as any other safe jump type scenario, but we have to commit to beating teleport.
Seth
Spoiler
1. Yunghove: Seth can os like ryu so if you do devils reverse Seth can os dp into headstomps and dive kick for his resets and teleport may or may not be safe against os legs. S.f.hp will hit teleport also.
2. Xlxlxlxl: A keen Seth can also use Ultra 1 or Super to punish any and all of your escape attempts. Your teleport can’t be OSed with legs, but they can be punished on reaction, especially if the Seth expects them.
Thawk (needs testing)
Spoiler
1. komradekraig i believe safe jump o-s ex dp beats ex psycho crusher but, obvi, hawk has to want to land in front of bison. i’ve beat devil’s reverse with o-s hp dp and, depending on the teleport you do, you can be dp’ed, spire’d or just not recover in time before you hit by another spd. i like the hawk bison matchup. it can be quite fun.
2. gridman: Os ex spire will stop infront of teleport back and you can 360 i think. it might be neutral. os ex spire goes through ex crusher and sometimes tracks/beats it.
komradekraig gridman came up to me, mid match, while i was playing a bison in a tourney in CT as hawk and told me to use cr.mp a bunch in footsies. And, as it turns out, pumpkinbomber, cr.mp will destroy all of bison’s pokes if you get the range right. bison’s st. mk and st. hk lose if you get the poke out first cause bison’s hitbox moves into the absurdly long range and lengthy active frames of the move. combine that with the fact that, somehow, i’ve stuffed ex headstomp with cl.mp (right at the tip of hawk’s hand) a couple of times and you’ve got some major game changes.
Vega (claw)
Spoiler
(vs ex psycho:)
meteo2: I beat it mostly just by blocking it / waiting and then punishing with a long range move which we have many of (slide, ex-walldive, ultras). Vega isn’t usually a big option selector on offense because he has no invincible ex-reversals, but he is a big-time punisher from crazy ranges. Be aware that ultra2 very easily auto-corrects, be aware that ex-flipkick and ex-roll go through moves that have fireball-like properties, and be aware that Vega has the second-best kara throw in the game.
**Jozhear: **Bison EX PC on wakeup after a safe jump is a free sweep (anywhere) or free EX FBA. Never do an EX PC if you know Vega is safe jumping you (watch for the whiff c. mp after EX FBA / ST knockdown).
No OS necessary since Vega can just beat it out.
Viper
Spoiler
**1. Killey : **
a. On occasion she can beat Psycho Crusher with a deep j.RH, a deep cross up j.RH, or a well timed jab TK but all of these are hard to time correctly on a consistent basis. Our options against Bison on wake up is to usually just safe jump RH and block his EX PC or EX Head Stomp.
b. If you do Devil Reverse and actually go for the hit then Viper can do EX Seismo or straight up Ultra 1 Bison we don’t need to OS that.
c. In my experience Bison’s with no meter will go for the teleport escape so I usually OS my j.RH with BK, EX TK, or Strong TK. It will beat the teleport or a back dash.
2. .ShotS
a. Viper can OS throw against bison to beat EX PC.
b. As for teleport, killey already said it.
c. For EX DR I don’t think there is a thing she can do about it.(Although I might be wrong)
Zangief
Spoiler
Zangief can OS Greenhand on safe jump to beat EX Psycho on wakeup
Zangief can OS c.mk under EX Headstomp on wakeup (can lead to 720/throw)
Zangief can OS Greenhand to get him back in on bison after teleport.
Zangief can camp bison’s body and neutral jump headbutt if bison is too predictable with wakeup EX DR or EX HS.
yeah you guys might have already known this, but if for some reason the enemy is option selecting sweeps on your wakeup every time, ex headstomp (depending on the character) is still a really risky and dumb option but it can work if they really are spamming that shit
Wouldn’t EX Psycho Crusher have the same effect with (in most cases) less risk?
Also, there is always the option of blocking.
The more I play against Adon, the more I feel that his wake-up time is straight up broken.
I believe they’re fixing this in AE.
yeah, mike, ex psycho i think is better than ex headstomp in that situation lol it’s just cause i saw AOI MOMO use that vs gamerbee and i never thought about trying something so risky before haha. maybe it’s because ex psycho gets beaten by rising jaguar option select too. anyways more testing to do, i dunno if adon’s moves have the same properties as ryu… but yeah i’ll probably just block. the part i saw it fom was here: [media=youtube]Y5f_7EY8Rdo#t=2m30s[/media]. i agree that it’s really risky though. i think it’s cause earlier in the game in r1, he backdashed out of this setup and gamerbee didnt punish with os, so he did the ex stomp this time. it was a mindgame, but risky and potentially game losing nonetheless.
also i just tested and on a untechable knockdown jump in adon only beats ex psycho with ex rising jaguar option select… good to know.
but yeah, not sure how to deal with adon’s wakeup time. guess i should test that, i dunno if i’ll have enough time to walk to the point where j.hp would cause srk to whiff or j.mk beats srk. i havent played many adons… lol
I personally didn’t find any j.fierce setups. Hopefully you have some better luck!
All I found was what I mentioned in the Kim1234 thread. Once you throw Adon, you see shockwaves form when his body hits the ground. Jump in with RH once you see the rings start disappearing (this is what makes this safejump very unreliable, but maybe there’s some sort of timing mechanism that can be used, like whiffing a s.short or something) and Adon’s DP will be blocked.
What’s up people
Got a recent video here of Isy vs a Balrog [media=youtube]h22ZXzIRiVc&feature=sub]YouTube - lsy9983 [Bison] vs ICe0AGe DrR [Balrog[/media]
If you watch at the 57 second mark he does a j.fierce super early. Any reason for this? It’s honestly the first time I’ve seen that being used. He does it again at 1.01 both times are after a lk scissors knockdown.
I understand using types of ‘fake safe jumps’ vs shotos to bait DP’s, however I’ve not seen this set-up used vs Rog.
If anyone can give me an insight as to why Isy uses this it’d be appreciated. I’m pretty unsure what the reason was.
Thanks.
i tested against adon’s wakeup, if you can throw him, you can walk to a point and jump, do j.mk and barely cross him up. it will tag him in the back of the head when he tries to reversal jaguar kick, although if he does a really delayed jaguar kick this setup will lose. when i tried with j.hp i wasn’t as successful, but i’ll try again later…
this setup worked against ryu too (except that it seems harder for ryu to beat the jump in with a late shorykuen. i do it alot actually vs ryu, it’s easier to do ambiguous crossup with the jmk when they learn to block than the j.hp, which i suck horribly at doing ambiguous crossup). another problem besides the delayed jaguar kick is i think adon who knows this can actually close s.hk right when he gets up and itll hit bison lol. give it a try, record bison doing the throw and walk forward for a long time until your jump j.mk ends up just barely crossing adon up on wakeup. it’ll stuff his reversals but i think adon’s close s.hk can beat it haha. iono, probably more testing needed to see if there is a better way to do it, but those were my results so far.
probably this will work too if your j.mk ends up just before the point of cross up and you land in front, that happens with ryu at least
Sooo I was looking at the frame data for Ryu’s jump-in option select lp. dp, and the frame data came out to -3 frames for Ryu after a perfect safe-jump. I went hmm.
So I went into the lab and recorded Ryu’s os-setup off a forward throw, and I did a forward teleport on wakeup, and lo and behold I was able to punish Ryu with c.lk x2 xx scissors. If Ryu doesn’t have perfect safe-jump timing, you actually get more than 1-frame to punish too.
But this was only in the lab, so can somebody else verify?
[media=youtube]dcwGK2gUQWU[/media]
Sorry for the shaky cam, I used my phone.
edit: Forward kick teleport is an even easier punish. You’re in range for a free throw to set up your own safe-jump, but it’s even riskier, heh.
Holy crap. I’m gonna test this myself, but if this works it’s huge. Great find!
Pretty sure you can punish o-s tatsu with forward teleport, U2, because he has 21 frames of recovery, so he doesn’t have a hitbox to hit you out of U2.
I’ll have to test it tho cause this is just something I thought of off the top of my head.
Although forward teleport is risky, if you’re able to train your opponent, it means that Ryu can’t o/s srk/tatsu for free. He has to be willing NOT to do it, and that means your other options (EX Crusher, backwards teleport) become that much safer. It turns something that was once free into a 50/50.
It’s the same effect as Ryu dping you out of your block string without 2 bars.
Yomi.
i think i once saw a match where min used forward teleport and punished OS lp srk, so i think it’s possible. it’s a good idea and i haven’t played around with it much, i should try incorporating it in my game. thanks for the info man
ok so this is going to be a ridiculously basic question that i’m gonna try to analyze in a little depth
what goes through your mind when you use s.mk in footsies?
i realized in comparison with chun lie’s s.mp, she’s at +2 on block, while bison is -2 on block. it makes a huge difference and it makes me think that bison’s s.mk is by design more of a move to punish opponent whiffed normals, while chun’s poke is a true pressure poke. chun’s poke is not as good at punishing whiffed normals because of its 1 frame slower startup.
so yeah, by design it seems bison is just made to be like this (at least in a normals battle - lets assume no fireballs here). i mean when i’m playing, i don’t really think all deep and stuff about design and what is most in my favor to do, i just play by instinct usually. i knew that s.mk was -2 on block so usually i’d wait a bit before i poke again, but i never really THOUGHT about why. i think it’s because if you wait, 1. you can just see when the opponent throws something out and punish its recovery, and 2. if they jump you will be able to run away or anti air if possible properly rather than if you mashed on s.mk, which gives you so much recovery (from whiffing) that you gotta block.
random stuff that i didn’t think as much about:
i think the only time mashing on s.mk works is if their fastest poke is slower than 8 frames (not likely) or if the hitbox of their poke goes under s.mk and end up hitting their vulnerable hitbox. because of the way bison’s s.mk is designed (http://i41.tinypic.com/rck9oy.jpg) you’ll noticed the attacking hitbox goes pretty low beneath his leg, so it’s a move designed to kill low pokes. but i think the enemy can just wise up to this and do a higher, more horizontal poke to beat you (if they have such a move) if you just mash on s.mk
I played a lot against Guile today, and I managed to beat c.hp with j.hp a few times. The spacing was a bit deep, like beating Balrog’s c.hp. I’m hoping that it’s consistent enough to learn.
Unfortunately, Guile still has s.hp, cl.hp, s.lp, c.hk, air throw, blah blah blah. Screw Guile.
In my experience, it’s impossible to consistently beat Guile’s crouch fierce unless the Guile times it wrong.