Hmm duno why I left out hit box thread link on top. Updated first poast wiff ittz
How do you get a cammy off your ass? You cant AA her because everything will lose to dive kick or j.RH, crouch tech is obviously not an option, and if her dive kicks are low, timing an ex pc/sk to escape the corner is extremely difficult.
I heard of an OS that beats dive kicks but you apparently need a crouching punch that comes out in 5 frames, which Bison does not have…
It feels like Bison has no tools to repel her.
thanks for the vs akuma info guys.
random zoning/spacing info vs ryu that i didn’t see on the front page.
i’ve had quite a bit of fun zoning ryu with ex scissors and neutral jumping. when he learns the range of ex scissors, if he insists to throw fireballs, you can back him into the wall as he tries to get out of your ex scissors range while you neutral jump and advance. it’s a good way to force ryu to come to you and play the close range footsie game which bison can win with s.mk/dash ins attack or trade anti air with s.hk. don’t let him get too close or he’ll jump all over you.
anyways my point is even though bison has no fireball, i’m starting to change my mindset as he can still do long range zoning against fireball characters with his ex sk and almost full screen ex pc. you will be shuffling back and forth and neutral jumping to force them into medium range combat - this is bison zoning lol.
a second fun spacing fact that i didnt see on the front page is that the very edge of scissor kick range is a double edged sword. you can potentially catch them off guard with a tip scissor kick, but this is also the range where if they neutral jump and attack (chun li’s j.hk comes to mind) they will rape your face if you are impatient with scissor kicks. i’ve yet to really have a very good solution to characters with excellent neutral jump attacks except to close the distance and to s.hk down their jump attempts, or to go air to air with them with bison attacking from above their attack (matchup dependent)
If Cammy is doing her Dive kicks to get in, just EX PC through them if you really don’t want the pressure. You can Also just Focus and Backdash if necessary.
Otherwise just Block, Tech, or backdash, it’s not that bad. React to insta-dive kick meaty pressure, and if you don’t see one prepare to tech. MK is your best friend here, her pokes are awful.
I also use Ultra I and react to Jump in’s, once you have it they should think twice about going for dive kick pressure.
Yeah I’m having massive Cammy issue’s too, didn’t know you could focus dive kicks gotta use that. I hate this match up so much feels like she gets free pressure with her god damn spiral arrow to dp. I do the same amount after SK her blocked DP as she does in freaking chip damage. You have to play this match so defensive I can never get any momentum going.
I’m also having serious Dudley troubles, the match up says to keep him at mid range but what exactly am I supposed to damage him? I keep fishing for pokes and getting pushed into a corner, and getting out sucks and I still don’t know a good way to deal with him. After just playing the comp on hardest in training for a long ass time (I know not super useful but not a lot of options) it seemed like mk stuffed a lot of his stuff. I had the most success just staying in close at doing anything and everything to stay out of the corner. But I was still eating DP a lot I just don’t know what I’m supposed to do here.
With Cammy if you’re spaced away correctly you can focus > punish the tail of the spiral arrow.
Edit: Also just punish her DP’s with U2
With Dudley I generally keep him out of range with st.mk, st.RH and cr.mk. I think it’s all about zoning Dudley. If you play Super defensive he finds it really difficult to get in on you. Try and bait his uppercuts, as far as I’m aware his DP’s aren’t that useful and can be safe jumped easily. I just play super safe, only jump in on him after a throw and keep him out with pokes. Beware of that standing fierce of his though that is pretty damn good.
If Dudley has you in the corner the most important thing is not to panic. Try and block all his pressure as the worst thing that is gonna happen is that you get thrown. EX PC is not a good escape option in this case as he can Ultra 1 it on Block.
I have no idea what to do vs Viper. I know its suppose to be Bison’s favor…maybe its just bc don’t play vs her enough. If I try to get in she can just do lp/mp knuckles to keep me out since theyre mostly safe, thn I have to guess throw/hp knuckle/or bait, since if she does hp knuckle itll beat anything I do. S.hk doesnt seem that reliable at beating random flame kicks.
The matchup in the op says you can block her flame kicks and punish but anytime I try that I seem to get counterhit. It seems that while Bison may have the tools to keep her out once she gets in she can dish out tons of a damage really fast.
She is seriously my worst matchup at this point I think. I have a much easier time vs Guile’s and Chun’s.
The cammy matchup is a mix between knowing your opponent as good as possible as quickly as possible and knowing your options against her and what what times to use them. Most Cammy players have both a rythum and are trying hard to condition you at the same time. For instance, tick throwing at the beginning of the round alot to set up a DP>FADC>Ultra or simply just DPs. What I mean by that is they will use throws to condition you so the next time they have meter and you think the tick throw is coming they DP instead. And they willl try to switch it around on you to keep you guessing. Other things they might do is set up a rythum with their dive kicks and let you AA it a couple of times with s.hk, then at the end of the round instead of another dive kick they will random DP in hopes of catching your hk ment to stuff their divekick. This stuff should sound familiar. Basically how you have to handle her is by keeping tabs as best you can on the entire fight and pay close attention to her meter. Stay grounded, use s.hk to stuff any predictable dive kicks, turtle your ass off and tech really well. When she gets meter try late teching or its probably better to just quit pressing anything when she is pressureing you because its better to eat a throw if you are unsure than a DP>FADC>DP or DP>FADC>Ultra.
crouch teching isn’t very good in this matchup so I would recommend just regular teching as best you can, because her dive kicks will go over your c.lk and you will get combo’d for crouch teching. Also c.lp and s.lp (i mostly use s.hk, but its not always the best answer) do well for stuffing her close divekicks on the jump, if the dive is already active though you just need to block.
Make her set up a rythum because she needs to get in to do damage and she neeeds shinangans to get you to open up and do damage. By this I mean if you block really well then she only has throw to mix it up, so look for any type of rythum in her game and make her pay for it.
@ Lynch focusing vipers flame kicks can usually land you a free throw or crumble. And if she is using hp TK to reversal, then bait that shit like you would a shoto and punish her as best you can. I promise she will stop doing them quick after to puinsh her a couple of times for it.
I don’t think you can punish a blocked flamekick, I know you can with a whiffed one. I don’t have alot of Viper experience to work with other than I know that if you can safe jump OS into HK it shuts down every escape option she has. Your footsies are much better and if she’s getting in on you with TK and applying mad pressure, EX PC can get you out of anything for free and start things over. I use EX PC heavily in this match because I hate her mixups.
viper tends to jump quite a bit, so pre-emptive s.hk is your friend. also her burning kick startup is vulnerable to pre-emptive s.hk. just don’t get predictable with it or she’ll earthquake punch the ground and you eat big damage.
With viper you cant punish after block for the most part because she gets alot of plus frames you have to know which ones to focus and which ones to block the higher the bk usually the better it is to focus. The problem lies that if you focus incorrectly and she lands behind you you are screwed. And good vipers will punish cr.short mashers. Her wake options are horrible if you can properly space and time them with bison and she can be easily stunned.And has no true answers for scissor pressure.It’s a weird matchup because she can guess say oops and ultra to erase all your hard work.
^Well put guru! Also against viper just walking/inching forward and blocking is a good strat don?t worry about her thunder knuckle pressure just be patient and don?t panic (stop mashing stuff). Once u find an opening or they eff up try to push her in the corner and apply some sk’s pressure.
Having trouble with Balrog every time I cross him up I can’t seem to find a stable combo that’ll hit him b/c of his wonky hitbox so cross over j. foward c. jab s.jab c. forward or short never work.
What about c. jab, s. jab, s. short, s. rh?
that one works but its still tricky because if rog is crouching, then the st.rh wont hit. swicth with s.frwd. also try j.frce-cr.short/forward to short scissors as well. the only reason i say short scissors is this combo has unreliable hit confirm(unless you have godlike reactions) that way you will be safe
You should have enough time to sciccor rog and get that knockdown.
Hope ya don’t mean naked scissors, cause I can tell ya right now that almost never works on a mid level rog much less a good one. I am guessing you probably don’t mean that though.
Anyways as far as crossing rog up yeah due to his weird lower hitbox its very weird, Cammy has to modify her bnb most of the time as well just to get it off on him. If you replace the st.rh mentioned above with a lk or mk scissors that should work.
You can cross rog cross up j.mk/j.hk,cr.lp,cl.lp,st.lk,xx sk or cross up j.mk/j.hk, cr.mp, st.hk. J.hk is good if you have landed empty jump ins and the rog is crouching plus their is a way where j.hp hits them in the back and can beat or trade cr.hp based on the other players timing.Or on wake up players usually hold down back so if you get an untechable knockdown that might be a decent idea to cross up j.hk. Sometimes they use ex to asorb the attack and because you cross them up they asorb whiff which is why you os hk.
I don’t know what your talking about man… naked SKs are super useful in this matchup. Especially against good Rog players.
That depends really. Naked SKs are pretty decent to get a little chip damage and to stop EX Dash punches, but they can be punished pretty badly if the Rog can space himself to where it will whiff. Whiff an SK and that’s free sweep or worse.