SPD’s start-up is 2 frames. Ultra is 1 frame.
With regards to jumping out of ultra… as far as I know, as long as you’re holding up(-back) during the 1-frame startup, you’re in the clear.
Eh? Oh well, I guess my frame data is wrong. Anyway, it’s still jumpable regardless of whether or not I can figure out the technical aspect of it. I’m no master of frame data anyway.
EDIT: Oh wait, let me revise. Are pre-jump frames throwable? If not, then you have TWO frames to jump out of it. And that gives you one frame to jump out of Zangief’s Ultra (which won’t happen do to Ultra freeze, thus u need to input it before you see the flash). Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
Your pre jump frames are not throwable which is why you can jump out, but a 3 frame start move will hit you out of your jump.
Pre jump frames are not throwable. If you are holding up-back when the scissor kick animation ends, you will be able to jump out of any throws that he does. Obviously, this opens you up to non-throw counters. The best thing to do is watch the gief player’s responses to lk scissors, and change up your followups so that he has to keep guessing. Other good options aside from jumping include back teleport, back dash, ex devils reverse, ex headstomp if you’re able to get a really good read or are insane, or just blocking (loses to throws, but if they start trying to punish other escapes with lariat/greenhand, this sets you up to punish). If you see them going for the same thing after a blocked scissors, sometimes its good to mix in a little offense (ex. if they keep doing st mp after the scissors to stop jumps, follow up with a cr.lk xx scissors to stuff it).
You don’t really need to be psychic for EX HS in the Zangief matchup (or anyone with a wide/tall hit box). Just as long as you don’t spam it or throw it out recklessly, you’ll be fine. Get a setup for it, and it’s pretty hard for a character like Zangief to avoid since he’s big and so slow. If they know it’s coming, I believe it loses to certain moves though…
Small bits of update on Abel
Right, but it’s pretty shitty when they wait a split second to TU then.
Sorry if this has been stated before but I just wanted to get something cleared up…
Bison is OS’ing every cr. lk to ignite lk sk
In Bison v. Rufus, if Bison has a knockdown on rufus in the corner, Bison sitting on Ultra I, starts out a cr. lk xx lk sk meaty string:
A) Cr. lk is safe from messiah kick
B) Cr. lk catches jump attempts
C) Ultra I reversal OS will catch EVERY attempt other than LK from messiah
D) You auto - block LK followup so that unless rufus has meter to FADC, you have essentially OS’d for cr. lk x3 xx lk sk at the end of that as well to start the situation over.
I’ve tested this in training mode to major success up to 3 sk strings in a row, on the 3rd You can either risk a SK to get back in or risk a jump to apply more corner pressure.
Quite literally for 3 sk strings Rufus can do absolutely nothing or he WILL eat ultra, or if he wants a reset on the situation. I’ve done this in training mode 10 times in a row with my friend mixing up all his escape attempts and they all end in rufus eating ultra or ending up back in the corner, if Rufus has an escape option other than what I’ve mentioned I would really like to know.
I don’t really play much bison so I haven’t seen if this was already posted but:
In the Seth match if he has ultra 2 and tries to chip you to death with it (as many seths like to) you can escape by using Bison’s ultra 2 and moving him towards seths opposite side. You have invincibilty on the way up (as i’m sure you all know) so you go straight through the tanden stream unharmed. If you land far enough away both ultras just do nothing, if you land on the same side you went up you get hit, if you land on the far side but near to his body you get sucked by the vacuum towards Seth (like you go hit by the tanden engine).
However, from what i’ve tested its not possible to actually punish Seth with the ultra in this situation as Seth’s weird vacuum affects Bison just before he can hit the ground - you don’t take any damage even if you do get sucked by it.
I’m not sure that’s a very clear explanation, but test it out! Who knows, maybe it will save your life.
soundslikeowned, that’s good Seth-specific and general Psycho Punisher usage. I don’t think a lot of people use Psycho Punisher for escaping as much as they should when the circumstances come down. A desperate Ultra II isn’t going to cut it anyway as 90% of knowledgeable players will block the right side if you do it. It is probably better to just get out of the pressure and reset the situation and hope you can mount a comeback with low health.
You can just block the correct side and then back out a bit. Psycho Punisher works on wake up because the edge of the hit box can get her during recovery I think
Guys, can you give me a full list of preferred Ultras you would use for every match up? And will a certain Ultra the opponent chooses determine what Ultra you would like to use?
From the little I’ve played of Super, I’d basically do U2 for all projectile throwers and U1 for all non projectile throwers. There are a few exceptions to the rule though.
Guile - U1 since I’m unlikely to land U2 in a situation where I couldn’t land U1 (except for a surprise whiffed Flash Kick or something).
Viper- Probably U1, but I don’t really have a lot of Super experience with her. Maybe U2 to punish flame kicks?
Honda- Don’t have any Super experience against him, but I’d imagine U2 is better for punishing whiffed moves.
Cody- Probably U1 since U2 can’t really punish rocks.
It’s pretty easy to see an ex headstomp coming. Gief can back dash SPD or crouch lariat it. I’ve had the most success in that matchup using it as an anti-air. As a post scissor kick mixup option though, it’s hella risky.
Well, perhaps my word choice was bad. It’s risky in many situations, but overall more useful in this matchup than in many others. Does crouch lariat beat EX-HS? Did it in Vanilla? Japanese Bisons use EX-HS quite a bit I’ve noticed. I’m not as liberal as them, but in the corner Zangief doesn’t have a lot of very good options against it.
Hey Tony I got something good for Abel…
Tornado Throw - All non ex versions are throw invincible on frames 1-6. EX version is hit invincible on frames 1-6. All versions grab on frame 5. Again another interesting discovery is made when we look at the data. EX TT loses to throws? Pretty crazy if you ask me. So if Abel has meter and you think he’s gonna go for EX TT, then you should go for the meaty grab.
originally posted by EmblemLord
dont all command throws lose to throw?
Pretty sure command throws beat throws if they go to their active frames at the same time, but most command throws have more than 3 startup frames. So because of the slower startup, a regular throw will often beat a command throw if both are executed at the same time.
I was checking this tread out and was wondering. My friend just recently started playing Cammy and I am not sure if this has always been the case but if she is in corner crouching you can’t cross her up with j.mk, probably not at all. We also noticed if you do a move that hits in front like j.mk while she is stand blocking but end up landing behind her and doing punch really fast she will block despite holding the wrong direction.
Just figured I would post this her if anyone knew why any of this was the case. I have only tried it on Vega as far as the crossing up while crouching would keep me out of the corner but it doesnt work that way for him. Either way that Cammy stuff should probably be put in the matchup notes since it isn’t something common that I am aware of.
Blanka…
Blanka’s easy. Just punch the guy using him in the face. Problem solved.