i was testing and its not that hard too hit confirm, but the problem is the goddamn pushback on chun normals and the fugly hitbox of crouching blanka, even one jab isnt enough to link cl.hk lol
how up to date is the cammy info in the op?
The Thigh Life & Style Thread has more updated matchup info.
hey guys. I played against a Guy today and I had no idea how to approach this matchup.
l have next to nothing experience in this matchup.
Any safe jumps I should do against him? any safe jumps he can do to me I should be aware of ?
any combos that wont work against him?
what can be punished? what can be stuffed ?
the OP doesnt include much info on him.
I was afraid of jumping at him cause maybe he would instant air grab
I felt he always had frame advantage after his block strings.
also is there any advantage or disadvantage if I block his elbow high or low ?
-cr. mk his elbow and follow up link with cr. lights for a meaty combo. Do this on both the normal jump version and Bunshin flip version.
-If you block the elbow, he’s at an advantage so go under it.
-EX legs does four hits on him so you can get decent damage every time you open him up.
-Bunshin flip grab does A LOT of damage so don’t get caught in the air or standing while he’s doing a flip. Pretty much condition yourself to react to the sound of bunshin flip with cr. mk and he can’t touch you with eitther follow up.
-His EX hurricane kick is 4f so 4f safe jumps should work. I still go for forward throw, dash, crossup j. lk or j. fp on him because I’m not that worried about it. It’s not FADC-able so it’s a free punish when baited.
-I don’t know what his safejump setups for Chun look like, but I’ve had my EX SBK baited by a simple walljump a few times before under the illusion of a crossup attempt. :lol:
-All his slides are unsafe on block and you may often see him FADC the run -> slide to stay safe. The normal cr. hk slide is weird and has two different states where it can either knockdown or just hit without a knock down. These are -10f[-5f] on block. Those can’t be FADC’d.
-Run-> overhead kick is also unsafe on block so if you guess either of his high low mixups from run, you’re at an advantage.
-EX run can be made to absorb up to 3 hits. Not really much you can do about that except guess the mixup.
-Don’t hesitate to EX SBK if he’s pressuring you with his strings so he’ll calm down and try to bait more… giving you more outs under pressure.
-You can get full cl. hk xx HK Legs ~ MK Legs, followup on him for great damage and stun (he has below average stun btw).
-His Jumpin attacks are better than they were in Super, but he has a floaty jump and is not hard to air to air. Guy players rarely ever use that command throw in the air and you can beat the regular version with your own airgrab. Only worry about the EX version (if he even does the command throw in the first place).
Other than that, the match is pretty straightforward imo. I use kikosho for this match because it’s pretty easy to open him up to get EX legs. He’s not as slippery as some other characters imo.
A character specific combo on him is cr. lk x 2 xx LK Legs (4 hits), st. hp. This’ll probably never come up, but if you happen to mess up an EX legs confirm, just know that you can do that.
safe jumping guy is not easy, he doesnt wake up like the rest of the cast (cant remember if is faster or slower). And ex tatsu in 2012 is legit reversal now, chun cant go under it with cr.mk since the buff on the hitbox. Anyways happy new year to everyone.
Great info darklight I appreciate the time you spent to write all of that. Sure to give me an idea next time i fight him.
I think we ought to update the matchup thread to reflect thiis information.
It would be great to have threads OPs covering up to date matchup strategy including you options from combos/OS/safe jumps… and the opponent options to put in mind etc etc
Also do you have the ae2012 frame data?
I grabbed them from event hubs but they seem to have mistakes such as hk.SBK damage. Any accurate list around ?
Follow up to guy matchup:
When I jump attack him he crouches and use his c.mp. his crouching makes him very tiny and nequires j.hk to reach his hitbox
I tried in training j.hk against his c.mp, sometimes i win sometimes he wins and sometimes it trades. As i dont have a practice buddy i am using twi controllers simultaneously, so not sure which wins normally
.
Also tried my fav mixup of stomp to j.lk but he is to slim and j.lk whiffed T_T
Do you happen to know any worthwhile OS?
.
AE 2012 frame data
cr.mp from guy is a very good AA, dont try to stuff it with jumping attacks, you cant.
stomps [S]mix ups[/S] gimmicks from chun are weak. Use them sparingly.
there are quite a few important OS. There is a couple of threads with specifics and what not.
Something sad with ultra 1 that doesn’t work the same way it did in super is you can’t reliably do cr. lk, cr. lp, cr. mk (or lk) xx EX legs -> early ultra to make it juggle on characters who wouldn’t normally juggle otherwise. To see how drastic the difference is, change your game version to Super if you have it and try it out on Gouken and Akuma real quick… it’s 100% consistent in Super as they automatically gravitate to the top of her leg, but nowhere near 100% consistent in AE 2012 (still works sometimes)… I think it either has something to do with a change in the camera or a change in her push boxes during U1. *note: you have to start this juggle a bit away from the corner, not directly near it or she will go under the opponent.
However if you juggle certain characters so they land on the top of her leg from the first hit of U1, they will fully juggle when they wouldn’t juggle otherwise. You don’t have to do anything specific before the ultra… just try to get them to land on top of her leg instead of hitting them in the middle. This is reliable on Adon and the Twins (I use U1 to lock away certain moves in those matchups). It’s not reliable on Dudley, Akuma, Oni or Juri imo even though I’ve gotten it to land on them a couple times in training. Everyone else who doesn’t juggle normally I have not gotten it to land on. I didn’t test it on characters who juggle normally.
I think by now, since vanilla SF4, I’ve seen U1 juggle more different ways than there are actual characters in the game. :lol:
-Not sure if old, but comboing into EX Legs (3 hits) and instantly jumping forward with a jumpin is a 4f safe jump against immediate quickrise. If they don’t quickrise at all, then neutral jumping right away afterward then coming down with a normal is at least a 6f safe jump (empty jumping will bait a 4f reversal).
Yeah, if you empty jump forward it also beats 3f reversals but then it technically isn’t a “safe jump” since you land just before the reversal window.
Maybe old info, but if you do cr. lk x3 xx EX Legs -> step forward-> jump MK on Cammy it’s an unblockable setup if she quickrises and she can’t hit you with cannon spike (whiffs). Something about Cammy’s hurtbox exclusively that makes j. mk very useful in this matchup. Dunno what, but I’m happy and just wish it worked on more characters.
If you only do cr. lk x 2 xx EX Legs or cl. hk xx EX Legs, take only about half a step before jumping, but this is a bit harder to time/space correctly imo.
Watch out for any potential Ultra 2 users, because… you know… Capcom thought it was a good idea for Cammy to get all these crazy crossup and unblockable setups AND a potential way for her to take over half your life free if you try that shit on her. :-w
yeah is kinda old
but as a reminder is always welcome
After going 2-2 at Final Round -_-; I’ve decided to take the next step and counter-pick / unblockable setups.
I was talking to LPN, and he said Balrog/Chun is now even if not in Balrog’s favor? I remember Chun being a really good counter to Balrog a while ago =( What’s changed?
nothing AFAIK
What’s changed is that Balrog doesn’t jump over Kikoken anymore, and he doesn’t do stupid shit from full-screen that can be reacted to and punished.
Against a very defensive Balrog, the Balrog/Chun matchup can actually be quite difficult imo. If Balrog knows which buttons to press to limit Chun’s approach options, he can actually give Chun a pretty hard time. His corner pressure and rushdown is not that worrisome but if he gets a lead and sits on it, forcing you to come to him, I always have trouble in that situation.
Also just as a very general question, you know how most of the time, if a move breaks armor, it will still be able to hit a Counter Ultra like Cammy or Fei’s U2? I am not sure if this is the case with all armor breaking moves but I assume it is.
What if you Reversal, giving your Reversal armor-break property?
Probably just experienced Rog players taking more calculated risks so that trades and damage work out in their favor like an experienced Honda v Chun… except that he does have more alternatives to deal with her fireball than Honda. They’re a lot better with their rush punches now combined with their bulldogging and footsies. Way less telegraphed and will also FADC to either bait super or make you 2nd guess punishing them.
She still has to control the match properly if she wants to win (just like any matchup that’s even or considered in her favor, things can still go downhill if she gets hit) and aside from her super taking away a lot of his options on block I feel a patient Balrog can afford to have his health chipped ever so slightly because he’ll pay it back double if he gets in. Sad to say, but in addition to subtle buffs or nerfs that took place over the past couple of updates, people are “learning” the Chun matchup and she struggles if she can’t crack you enough with chip to get you to do something riskier which will allow you take the lead and “really” start controlling the round.
Then she has to go in herself and take the risk to get that lead and hope the other player isn’t that good on defense, because she’s not going to be getting much damage anyway if she opens them up. Maybe that’s why some people are saying the matchup shifted… we got downloaded son!
if you can play defensively and get that life lead, chun wins on paper. But like many things, its not always easy. Chun li has had a lot of nerfs since Super because people saw her on the top of the tier chart and assumed she was broken without knowing anything about how nonviable she was.
The thing about the matchup is that Rog can do stupid shit to get in, and he only really needs one lucky break, whereas chun cant really screw up, and if she plays the way shes supposed to the match ends up being longer, aaaaaaand that means rog can take more chances. Thats the general theme of chun in SF4, make the matches longer and if you screw up, you lose. She needs a lot of help