Become the Jaguar Assassin: Adon's AE match up and strategies thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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Sorry for the double post but it’s slow in here and I wanted to run something past other Adon players to see what’s really up.

I was thinking about matchups that are disadvantageous for Adon and I came up with a list of what I think are some of his bad matchups. I’m going to list them here and will say no further about why I think the matchups are disadvantageous until someone posts an opposing opinion. Hopefully this will spark up some interesting debate! Looking forward to what people have to say.

Adon’s bad matchups:

Honda
Dhalsim
El Fuerte
Guy
Akuma
Yun
Yang
Dee Jay (in AE)
Sakura

42

hmm i agree with you on all those except for Elf. Can I ask you why you think he is a bad matchup for adon. hes just really random. Also I think we should fear ae cammy. she may not have tkcs but her normals have really improved. her st. mk beats my st. mk and she can duck under alot of adons pokes such as st. hk and st. mk.

btw for cammy if the player hits a spiral arrow too deap it can be punished with U2. Also her dive kick can be punished with U2 as well

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Dont worry about double posting, I do it alot! the Adon forums are pretty quiet :stuck_out_tongue:

Honda - It used to be one of Adons bad, I actually feel its fine now. He cant do anything on wakeup against you, and although he has good health and damage. Adons damage output is now better than Honda’s imo! nj.hp (aka the stop sign) can be a pain, but like all neutral jumps cr.hp is awesome! or you can just dash under him and mess up his charge. Then again I havent played any amazing Hondas in a while.

Sim - Since ex.tooth was buffed, definitely not a bad match up to me! Adon has plenty of ways to get around fireballs, and with tooth he can get in also. Previously he couldnt use tooth as sims slow fireballs would catch you, or you had to leave it late and get AA’d. Obviously there are times when you wont have meter, but even then I feel Adons jks outclass anything sim can do, and Adon has plenty to keep him on the opponent! I felt this match was just about even in super.

Elf - I am not sure on this, dont play many decent elfs. However Adons RJ auto corrects well and has plenty of invinc, which shuts down wakeup shenanigans. You can afford to leave it last second provided you can do the motion fast enough. You also have better pokes and jks will knock him out of ‘dashes’. However as I say, not 100%, but would say even at worst!

Guy - Well this match up is a pain in the ass imo, not sure id say it was in guys favour though!
That flip he does is a royal pain in the ass and the fact he can grab you out of a jk with it and deal huge damage is frustrating! However if you can get him to fight you at the right range I feel there isnt much guy can do to you!

Akuma - I agree that its a bad match up in the sense that, its slightly better for the Akuma player. However he is still a shoto and Adon does well against shotos imo! The biggest killer in this match as far as im concerned is the st.hk and teleport! Suffering both hits even when crouching sucks! and the teleport means the bugger can escape! However we have plenty of tools around fireballs and provided you space it right, hk.jk and nj.hk can deal huge damage to st.hk happy Akumas!

Yun and Yang, I havent played enough of them to comment on who’s favour it is in. If I had to say, id say… Yun vs Adon was 5.5/4.5 respectively, while yang was 5/5.

Deejay - I am so tempted to agree with you here, the guy is a royal pain in the ass! I just hate fighting him. He is really safe and has the worlds most annoying jump arc, coupled with that bloody knee thing! ugh! im getting annoyed just talking about it! However Adon does have tools that cause him issues, jks obviously rock against his fireballs and although he has those up-kicks on wakeup, I never have much issue. Then again maybe I havent played enough of them?

Sakura - not played enough, but her pressure could be a pain for Adon, I use st.lk and cr.mp ALOT in this match up :stuck_out_tongue:

Gotta say I am suprised to see no Gief or Hawk in that list. These guys are Adons worst match ups imo! spd’s are the bane of Adon imo as they shut down half of what Adon can do!
Cammy isnt so bad since super, no free pressure, but you are right! she is small and because of that a real pain. But she isnt so bad once you get used to her! I need to play more decent Cammys though :stuck_out_tongue:

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Thanks for the reply Evil. Good stuff in there that I want to get to and hopefully we can get some more people involved.

Honda: At the end of the day though, when Honda is sitting on meter, it’s pretty much a low risk proposition for him. Adon has to guess when the EX SPD is coming as he’s pressuring him just to waste his meter since unless Honda is in the corner he can’t really punish them. The classic counter to JK’s, the neutral jump, is exacerbated by Honda’s ability to control himself using j.fierce, so he can can of inch closer while being in a position to whiff punish ground jags. I do agree though, I don’t really feel scared of this character anymore, I can’t really put my finger on it/ Something about the dynamic of the matchup doesn’t really put fear into my heart, and EX Headbutt is possible to safe jump too =)

Sim: When you are playing against a good sim, he pretty much has an answer to anything you can try to do and can really limit Adon’s ability to force the opponent to commit. Ground jag’s most certainly do NOT outclass Sim’s options… sim’s s.forward shuts down all ground jaguars and even cleanly swats EX Jag and basically just makes you waste meter. You can’t empty jump from normally safe distances to be ambiguous about air jags since he can jump back strong to cut you off. If you happen to do EX Jag over a limb and he recovers in time, good sim’s will EX upflame on reaction. EX Tooth trades with Sim B.RH I believe but there’s other tricky ways to avoid that. Also, when you do corner Sim you can’t exactly go crazy; if your try and get antsy with lots of air jags or ground jags other than roundhouse he can slide under, escape and subsequently force you to work all over again to get back in. You also have to be perfect with your pressure or risk getting thrown out of your pressures or interrupted, which sim is exceptionally good at doing. I might be biased since the Sim I play the most up here is Lucky D, but in general I can’t seem to win this matchup even against other decent Sim’s. I started doing better recently when I’m extremely patient…when I am more agressive I usually just dig myself a deeper hole…

Elf: Another character I can’t seem to beat at all no matter who’s using him. My problem against Elf seems to be the same as my problem with Guy generally: There’s no real way for Adon to control the match. If Adon manages to pin an Elf down somehow, it’s never as good a reward as when Elf pins down Adon, but you are generally just trying to chse him down and getting hit by random shit. I have been thrown out HK Jag consistently by one elf which I think is ridicolous. Back run perfectly spaced can avoid some jags and he can come back in and do spin throw and put you back in his little guessing game. This is one matchup I can’t really explain as well since I never put time into Fuerte amongst other things…but man it feels really bad. I can never ever pin down a good Fuerte and if I do it’s just a back and forth with Fuerte getting better rewards when he pins me down. It’s so weird.

Guy: Slide’s are such bullshit man. You can’t focus them reliably because Adon’s focus whiff’s Guy’s slide recovery, and even RH Jaguar can go over the fucker depending on spacing! It’s such crap. Bushin flip will grab you out of any empty jump attempts and then of course he has elbow drop bullshit to keep you honest. EX Hurricane Kick is not possible to safe jump IIRC so you pretty much have to guess when he wants to throw that on his wakeup, and he still has a decent backdash to boot. Adon is only winning this if he corners Guy, because out in the open I find the only decent strat is to block a lot and stay put, because Guy just seems to be able to stuff anything Adons does.

Akuma: He just has too many tools to shut down Jag games and he doesn’t need to rely on the more traditional shoto tools to do it. s.HK just doesn’t need to be that good against Adon…it swats him out of air jags and of course for some reason Adon can’t duck under it because he has a big hurtbox despite being a visually small character. Air fireballs keep Adon at bay and teleport forces Adon to switch ultra’s. No explanation needed really, Adon has always and probably will always lose to this dumb character. All I really want in AE 2012 is just to be able to duck the dam s.hk, but since they have ignored that this far it will probably stay that way =(

Not touching Twins since I don’t think those matchup are all that bad at all, but they do SLIGHTLY favor the twins so I included them because I wanted to be thorough.

Sakura: This one is really simple. C.Fierce stuffs absolutely every variation of Jaguar absolutely free and since it’s a non-commital move like say a dp, fainting and baiting it dfoesn’t do much. If you try to stay honest against her and get into straight footsies, Sakura’s footsies outclass Adon’s footsies and lastly adon can’t consistently AA her because she can jump in with tatsu or normal. It gets worse: you can even empty jump against her to set up some ambiguity because if you jump in from farther Sak just does does running shoryu to catch you. Finally, Sak’s reward for getting in on her terms is just better than Adon’s reward for getting on her. She has her resets and her amazing pressure, adon just does his little dance to annoy and chip. It’s just bad, Sak is designed to beat Adon basically, she has everything most other characters wish they had when they are dealing with Adon: A single input move that shuts down jags, a way to stop his empty jump ambiguity and better footsies.

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^^^^^^^^
Directed to pancho

Honda: One way to stop majority of your guessing is to just walk forward and watch the honda ya fighting if he neutral jumps hard dp him try and condition him to where he would wanna stay on the ground and as soon as you get the knockdown its os city from there.

Sim: True he can keep you the fuck out, thats only if you let him get comfortable what I tend to do is keep atleats one ex bar on me just in case true he can shut down ex jag tooth but you can bait a limb out and just do the ex jag tooth and there you go, just be smart about it. PLENTY of patience is needed and sims main objective is too piss you off so keeping a cool head is ideal.

Elf: I play this matchup like I play honda/geif just let elf be crazy and just try your best to avoid the knockdown. corner him and bait out his ex guacamole grab in the corner hes fair game its up to you to keep him there.

Guy: Standing fierce stuffs and trades he elbow drop and his slides are punishable ( with lp) on block. You can annoy guy in the middle of the screen with IAJKs at the right distance but keep in mind of his meter just like c.viper you must respect his meter.

Akuma: This matchup def got worse since super just gotta block and watch for the unsafe setups (like standing fierce into demon flip) be easy on the jagga kick pressure because akuma hurts and if you fuck up thats a quarter health just gone.

Sak: Sak isnt that bad true her cr. fierce is kinda stupid but that can be stuffed with neutral jump hk. Also you must shorten your hit confirms on her to 1 ot 2 pokes if you want to maximize your damage. Also respect her meter as well this matchup requires footsies and basically whoever gets the momentum first wins well thats what I see from it at least

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Sak:

There is always a feint for EVERYTHING ever in every instance :stuck_out_tongue:
iAJK out of range, she whiffs c.HP, you can sweep recovery.

Now I don’t know, at all if this is viable, how easy or hard it is, etc. Might very well be useless as I just came up with it and haven’t tested it in match. But yeah, it exists.

Versus Sim:

A thing you can try, I had some sucess with it but it might be luck, is c.HP to beat his high limbs (stand MK, HK) and then jagkicks for lower limbs/fire. I rarely play good sims, can anyone confirm this is good?

Various lab shit you’re welcome to confirm/deny:

c.MK seems like the only poke that can somewhat compete with makoto b+mp. Everything else gets stuffed, but it seems c.MK does well at shutting it. Unless close, then obviously lights are better.

There’s a safejump of sorts vs gief, I used it with good sucess against someone and testing in practice:
Any knockdown, position yourself slightly away from him and do neutral jump HP (at the max range of the move). With proper timing and distance lariat gets stuffed and you block greenhand always. Gief cannot duck nj.HP because of his size so I think he’s forced to block. Much easier to set up if gief is cornered.

What would the best options be against elf mixups on wakeup (depending on what he does)?
I think it would be a 50/50 between neutral jump HK and reversal focus dash. Neutral jump will give you a LOT of damage on the hop throw thingy and focus dash will often let you somewhat punish the crossup splash, without having to guess which way to block. It will also absorb the slide but since it recovers so fast he might be able to punish you during the dash, I don’t know.

47

Also, fuck fei. Fuck him.

48

Since people are using the thread in opposition to what someone else said in the old thread, I will start updating this one. Thanks for all the input so far guys. Hopefully the Adon forums are gonna be making some noise again.

49

Should we pm a mod to have this sticked. Im finding alota really good info on matchup in this thread.

50

Why did no one ever told me j.HK has soooo much less pushback than j.HP? Fuck!
This is ridiculously good against some characters who you can safejump.
Sagat, any safejump situation (forward throw>dash, lk RJ 1 hit, MK RJ, etc) after meaty j.hk you are in perfect range to do fuzzy guard nj.MK xx jagkick>combo.
Fukken sweet. I never used fuzzy guard in the past just because I had no clue about the j HK pushback.

Also, a late air jag kick beats gief trying to antiair you with lariat.

Against some bigger characters and some smaller ones (don’t know all of them yet, you can try) nj.mk will hit them crouching as they are waking up. It acts as an instant overhead. That’s pretty nice. You won’t combo off it but you can cancel to safety unlike nj. HK which can only used for finishing or stunning.

There should really be an adon wakeup thread, listing the best options vs every character. I think adon is scary on wakeup, one of the best but his setups are VERY character dependant. Writing that stuff down will help not forget it in the middle of a match.
I wish there was the same amount of dedicated posters on the forum as say, akuma.

51

I’ve got something against the kunai mixups. I posted in the general strategy thread but…

[media=youtube]vUozdQ7SWjo[/media]

52

So how do you guys approach the cody matchup.

From what I can tell you should not press buttons after the f. mp as he can press anything and itll be a frame trap. I think this is all known but I didnt see a Cody spoiler thingy so thought I might try and contribute and get some more feedback. Also Cody’s Ruffian Kick beats Adon’s Jaguar Kick. He is still really free on wakeup and iajk are really good against. I wanna find a solid cody to fight. There was one that goes to svgl but he hasnt shown up in awhile.

Also do you guys chose to rush him down or go defensive against cody. I usually go defensive, and when I get the knockdown I go on the offensive as his defensive options seem weak especially on wakeup.

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Being a cody main, when Im playing a cody as Adon I just dont press buttons in between block strings at all. Cody is so free on wake up, utilize that. All you should need is a single knock down then go nuts on his ars. I usually try to use far pokes and cross ups, limiting my jag kicks and jags and tooths because you can easily zonk them on reaction. Sometimes ill throw out a jag tooth early in the match to see if I get zonked. If there is no zonk the cody probably doesnt know the match up and it will be an easier win.

54

I see thanks for the advice. If you dont mind me asking are you on psn. I really want some experience against this matchup

55

Against Cody I try to get close slowly but surely, don’t jump he has good anti air from far (ruffian kick) and close distance (back mp), his stones are painful, use ex jk to punish it.
You can faint him with a light jt, if he use a zonk, punish with the lk rj and safe jump him, don’t really work if he has ultra II.

If he try to zone you with his roundhouse, and he will, use crouch hp.
During the two in one, use the jk hk to punish if he slides between.
Use jk hk and iajk if you mind a slide, can be risky, the rj will hit twice most of the time after an iajk

After a crack kick, don’t push buttons, he’s in positive, almost every attacks, stay calm, if he has three meters, he will certainly try an ex zonk wich it’s also totally invulnerable to any attacks and throws for the entire startup of the move, I guess you know that.

Punish zonk with cr jab rj lk.

Neutral jump mk air borne jk ex will combo against him.

Really take care of his neutral jump hp to avoid jaguar kick, if he hits you will cry, dash foward rj to punish that in mind, not really easy to do.

His overhead is not safe, -6, depend of the distance I guess.

I don’t think his ultra II can punish Adon normals in guard.

His bad spray can be focused and it’s -20 in guard.

OS ultra II will beat his backdash and (ex) zonk.

Use jaguar avalanche of course because he can faint his stones.

56

Im on xbox,

57

o alrite.

btw can you punish him after criminal upper. Sometimes i feel im either pushed too far back or he recovers quickly

58

believe a lk.rj can punish a version, but couldnt tell you if thats correct.

59

You should be able to punish the medium and hard versions with reversal lk RJ. although most people dont use mp CU.
The lp version only has 3 tornado hits and the HP version has 5. You should also be able to do the same with zonk.

However it is spacing dependent. If these moves are from max distance, Cody will have time to duck and your JK will wiff and he gets free punish of choice, so be careful.

60

Alrite I see. I gotta find some none lag codys to play against.

btw anyone here near san jose area. Im starting to hold sessions there with a couple friends so if anyone wants to meet up let me know