Don’t give up ropedrink, the more you play, the better you get, simple as that.
A few things that i can help you with regarding that video.
i’d really limit the use of EX rush upper unless you know for a fact it’s going to connect. So usually i try to limit these within combos or when i am going to ex through a fireball at midscreen. All the other ex dashes would be a better option because they at least don’t wiff and they are just better hitboxes/break armor/etc then the rush upper.
against the vortex mixups when he would do like c.LP c.MP into flip, i usually just fadc away. You can use ex punches against that as well and hit him out of the air but the angle he comes down at is important because most of the time you’ll just absorb and whiff on him. Blocking is fine as well but just giving you some ideas. I like fadc the most since ultra plays a huge part in killing akuma.
but honestly for the most part you play against akuma very well. you understand his mixups and do well to blast through them with ex or block them correctly. He’s a tough character who can do tons of damage so getting hit once in the wrong spot can be pretty deadly.
Also to comment on your not improving it really comes down to practice. That’s what it is all about. think about it like this, when the game came out like 80% of people thought ex rush upper to c.LP combo was like impossible… people begged for videos of people’s hands and everything. Now that is like easy to any mid level boxer. Just people practice and they get things down. Keep playing and you’ll see more things added to your arsenal. Just recently I decided to get into the training room and master ex dash cancel into ultra and at first it was hard, and now i can do it easily on both sides… so now the next step is being able to do it in tournaments. At first it seemed like i could never do it, now it’s like super easy and obvious to do and i don’t know why it’s not used more (probably tournament pressure since it’s an ultra on reaction) but anyway just keep at it. Playing other characters really can help keep your foots sharp but keep the game exciting. I play blanka randomly online because he’s a charge character that has good normals (like rog) but you can play him way differently so while you can retain a lot of the same skills with rog you get to try a new character that’s different. Usually i’ll play him 2-5 games and practice with him in training room then i go back to rog.
And honestly ropedrink you’re reaching the point in sf4 where spacing/foots is becoming the next level. Unfortunately this is the hardest level and the hardest one to teach… I know this is a huge hole in my game… you just get good at it with hours of training/practicing/learning. I mean people think wong’s rog is so good and other’s thinks it is weak. In reality it’s not even his rog that’s good he just has one of the best spacing/foots in the usa so he can pretty much do that with any character he’s put time into.
Aye you’re completely right - I still haven’t even sought after the notion of footsies and spacing as of yet. I’ve been trying to maintain specific distances on certain characters depending on my own style but I very rarely use that space as a way to bait/punished thrown out normals and things like that. I have a terrible TERRIBLE habit of backdash>sweep constantly on my wakeup these days and while it has it’s moments, it often ends up with me being the one punished but again, I know my bad habits and how to stop them, just finding it a bit hard.
I think I’ve some/most of the basics down ok but I’m still lacking in a lot and it’s above type of fights that are really showing it, hence I was happy at first to be able to fight a superior player and learn from it but also dismayed at noticing just how little I actually know overall despite thinking I was doing well, thats why I’m here.
I figure the reason why I use EX RU far too much is a sort of compensation/preventative from my older, worse habit of random headbutts. Even now I encounter many Balrog’s in PlayerMatches/Championship Mode and it’s depressing to see them playing the way I used to when I first started, and thats to open with headbutt, headbutt on wakeup all the time or just headbutt randomly - I’m far from that stage now, thankfully, but considering I rely so much on medium power combos (mostly jab related - I’ve still not performed a JabCMP 1FLink combo in an actual match just yet even though I think I could do it with practice) that it means I often rely heavily on being tricky and/or just getting an Ultra Setup.
Xaaz is right in saying that I kinda know what it is I’m doing and what I should/shouldn’t be doing, but I just feel there’s so much more I need to work on and that I can’t really get any of them unless I take it one step at a time and it just seems like a steep hill, especially seeing as I chose Balrog (And to even buy SF4 in the firstplace) because of all the inspirational pro movies from the top players, which is another reason why I make a point of saying how I accept my mediocrity/badness but that probably doesn’t help, either.
I kinda take on a showman approach - I’m too casual to want to improve to super high skill levels, but I do wish I could put myself into a match and know I’d put on a decent fight or at least be watchable - Thats another problem I have and it stems from the requirement of recording my games to function (Have to lower my FPS a little to be playing the way I’m used to) and sometimes I do reckless nonsense just because I feel it’ll make me look like I have a clue - Man I’m terrible
Still, really appreciate all this feedback - Much like the first time I posted here, it’ll definately be added onto the list of TO-DO - Big thanks, everyone!
well also a big reason you probably aren’t landing difficult links is i wonder how much online you’re playing. i play a lot online but i also play a TON of local matches (online and offline) and the latency is far better that way. One thing that i like do to when playing is to try to win with the most life total. Like just try to beat your opponent losing as little life possible. you’ll find yourself doing a lot less rushdown and more zoning/defensive style. At first you’ll probably get beat up because you arent’ used ot it, but it will pay off and you’ll learn foots game a lot more.
I never think of it that way - For me I’m just happy to win, or even lose if it was a good game, but it’s no suprise that so many of my fights, no matter how good/bad I seem to be playing, have often boiled down to a tight conclusion with both on low/similar health and the victor being the one who made the smart move over the one who gets desperate.
Another issue of mine is I never watch the opponents EX Meter, sometimes not even my own. The above Akuma often likes to spice their blockstrings up with cancels into sweeps/srk’s/throws and I always told myself to pay attention to that but often find myself too busy looking at the fight.
It may help to mention that I never have and, likely, never will ever get to play offline - Everything I’ve done and learned has been from 100% Online play on 30FPS and Keyboard hence I find things to be a bit… Lopsided…
-Be alert and ready to react at the start of each round in case your opponent decides to try some shenanigans on you. The Akuma player was starting rounds with demon flip. You could have punished him for it.
-Punish random flips with Rog’s jumping fierce. Use backward, neutral, and forward jump depending on the situation. If Akuma is ending block strings with a demon flip, you can punish him on reaction by doing jump back fierce as soon as you hear the grunt.
-That Akuma player was overusing his fs. hk. To get him to stop, bait it out by walking into his fs. hk range and then doing either a neutral jump or jumping backwards. Once he stops using fs. hk frequently you’ll be able to get in more easily.
-I’ve noticed a certain pattern of yours. When you score a sweep or a throw, you’d dash straight in and do an empty cross-over jump. This is a very high risk wake-up move for very little reward. Your opponent is going to get up a lot sooner than you can land, and it’s basically a free punish for anyone who knows that Rog has no air normal that crosses up. You need to work this out of your game ASAP.
-You’re relying too much on TAP and random/wake-up/reversal dash punches. It might seem like an attractive idea because it helps you close the distance and it’s generally safe on block, but most decent players will punish you for it. Start picking your shots and looking for alternative ways of getting in close. The fewer random dash punches you use, the higher the chance that they’ll catch your opponent off guard.
-Don’t shoot yourself in the foot. Check your “Not So Lucky Me” video #2. At 1:45 you dashed forward and then jumped in. Bad sequence of moves given the circumstances. You dashed into Akuma’s his fs. hk range (a poke that Akuma tends to overuse against Boxer because he can’t duck under the second kick), so the Akuma player reacted by trying to poke you with it. He probably wasn’t expecting you to jump in after the dash, but he was still able to punish you for the jump because his natural reaction to your dash was to do something that made your follow-up jump-in whiff. Keep your opponent’s options in mind when planning your attack, and don’t play into their hands.
Thanks Rainy, nice tips - I do like to jump over Shoto’s on wakeup once in a while as I find most of them will often SRK on wakeup and if I time it right I often land with them still in the air allowing me to punish however I like, though I tend to assume everything works on everyone and above Akuma often only SRK’s through blockstrings (Something I’m also trying to work on by baiting them or stop failing my hits - Turns out I lose a lot of links even when the opponent is blocking so I’ve eaten quite a lot of reversal/counterhit SRK’s in my time).
The whole jumping over people is something I’ve just adopted as it seemed to work against the more typical players who spam wakeup moves as well as something I do to annoy fellow charge characters, favourite being a TAP/Headbutt over untechable knockdown into meaty jab-combo from the other side, you can see me try that very often after Ultras in the corner as one of my silly attempted tricks but ultimately I just need to realise it’s not always as rewarding as it’d be to work on other options that don’t involve high-risk/low reward, hence I made the wakeup-pressure thread some time ago.
I think everyone has been spot on with their advice but I guess I find it hard to take note because I’m still unsure of the real footsies/spacing ranges of ANY characters - I tend to stick to a space based on my preference/style as opposed to one that is tactifully better - I kinda know Akuma’s FS.HK range but I’m not sure if I have to reaction to punish it on whiff as it seems very fast - I have poor reaction time for those kinds of things but I guess that comes with practice as well
I had a little restored faith lastnight as I hit a random player match at 4:30am and encountered a learning Ryu who was better than the typical everyday Ryu’s in Champ Mode but still didn’t seem to know enough to beat me (14-1 in the end), and part of the reason I won was performing a few things I hadn’t had a chance to, before. I just need to keep positive and keep learning I guess, and stop thinking I know every matchup when clearly I don’t, by a long shot.
@Rope: Against the Akuma’s fs. hk, you don’t do the jump back on reaction. Just take a step forward as if you’re going to walk into his fs. hk range, and jump back. If he does an fs. hk while you’re in the air you can punish him with a fierce punch. Don’t do this too often though or you might end up losing too much ground or getting fireballed. Another thing you can try is ex RU on reaction, but you need charge for that. Failing that you can walk in a bit and FA back dash (I think you’re already using this method), and then punish with a sweep (just make sure you’re doing it far enough away so the roundhouse doesn’t hit you after the back dash. Another thing you can try is throwing a few jabs or s. mks from just within his fs. hk range to fish for counterhits.
Aye I’ve been practicing with focus attacks a lot lately, I still stink with them in general but I’ve been trying my luck with them thus far and getting a little better, I just never use it too often in that matchup as I tend to be too far and expecting fireballs, or too close and know that the FS.HK will hit me twice and ruin the focus (I assume you’re talking about the double fierce kick he does). I do use EX RU quite a lot and have definately caught him with that a few times, you can see me trying my luck with it twice in the ‘lucky’ video and, luckily enough, it paid off, but on reaction it’s a bit difficult due to my slower reaction time. I’ll definately remember the walking forward/jumping back fierce. I very rarely ever jump backwards, usually forwards, so thats something I can definately put to work.
Not too long ago, I was at a point where you are now. I had all the combos down to perfection. I kinda knew what I was doing, but still got my ass handed to me.
What helped was to really focus on spacing and footsies - as others have pointed out already.
Also, trust in your cr.fierce, it’s godlike
Stay at a range, where Akuma can’t cross you up and hit him out of the air with cr.fierce. Even works on Demon Flip.
Don’t jump/dash/dash punch/tap in so much. Just walk forwards. Put him in the corner, and stay at aforementioned range. Just outside sweep range, so you can punish his whiffs by just walking 1 step and cr.roundhouse.
Save your ex meter for when you get knocked down. Try and get out of that vortex of his.
Pick your shots. Wait for an opening, hit him hard, and retreat back to your comfort zone where you can just react to what he does.
Just my 2 scrubby cents
Am by no means an expert, but these were the points that made me get over that wall.
Thanks again, I do burn through EX meter like a kid with a bag of sweets and that doesn’t help, even if I do usually always have one for escapes. My DFierce AA needs work as I tend to press it way too early, sometimes, or misjudge the angle. If I face him again I’ll be practicing that as well.
I’m very tempted to make another non-fight based SF4 movie - Wanted to compile a list of what I considered to be highlights but ultimately big flashy stuff (or the little flash I can do) doesn’t mean it was a good thing, so I figure it’d give people an idea of my terrible habits and to help point out what was just plain luck, what was good/bad or what was just a case of the other player not being experienced enough to handle it (Such as people, like myself, having poor crossup/reaction to blocking when I go for my side-swapping shinanigans).
I think I performed my first few intended meaties of which went quite well, too, and a few other bits and bobs regarding better punishing so I think I can keep pushing forward but still a lot of work to do, yet - Either way, it’ll always come with a big thanks to all who’ve helped me on this Forum, must say this Balrog community really is great.
Bah, hate doing this is it looks/feels so spammy but I’ve been trying my arm with focus attacks and focus cancels lately and figured I’d ask for tips.
I know Rog’s FA isn’t the best in the world but I’m sure it has some uses - Hopped into a game with a Bison player (generally annihilates me) and he decided to swap to Vega for a few - Figured it’d give me a slight opening to try on his alt as opposed to his main, moreso as I’m usually free to make a few mistakes but the matches themselves aren’t too serious - Still, I guess it wouldn’t hurt if someone was bored and would like to throw their 2cents on FA.
I often hear comments from people about how they love to FA on people who are a bit too poke happy so I gave it a shot, hit and miss, though again I’m not exactly too hot on using it as of yet so you’ll see me repeatedly trying it out at pathetic times and on SEVERAL occasions I actually landed a crumple but didn’t get to combo due to idiocy on my part or just plain failing to dash - Keyboard doesn’t help a lot with that.
No need to critique the actual fight as I’m actually quite aware of most/all stupid decisions & errors I made though maybe it wouldn’t hurt to remind me of those, too.
I took a few notes from all the help people have given and been a lot more inclined to use jump-back fierce to try and ween myself off from the easy to read jumpins I keep doing normally, though fighting Vega hasn’t really given a chance to show wether I’ve eased off on my repeated TAP abuse considering it’s suggested to always keep one in stock for certain moves but oh well.
Nothing special and probably scrubliciously embarassing to watch but thats why I’m here - Still, everytime I get an overhead combo (0:45) on someone I get that warm fuzzy feeling inside <3
C’mon people, surely I’m not the only one wanting critique! Please start posting so it doesn’t look like I’m spamming the place to death
Hey i only have one video posted of me online so far but it might be good to show some of my hang ups. This fight is against a sakura and she pretty much raped me . It should be @3:30 seconds is when i start. Vinceiz88 is a very nice guy and gave me a heads up when he uploaded it because i sent him a message about his rape of me being funny.
[media=youtube]gojPxmElAX8[/media]
there ya go Rope! now you wont be alone on this thread haha
Cheers
I’m an inquisitive bloke but I hate returning continuously and venting as it makes me feel like I’m being spammy - Must say I think I’ve improved a lot over time in comparison to how I was, but I know there is room for so much more improvement hence I want to make a push for it.
Regarding yours I notice that the Sakura (like most I’ve fought) really love that poke/dash under crossup and I’d like to think I’ve faced it enough to block it or be watchful of throw mixups during them, whereas he/she used it a few times in a row and still caught you out, how is your crossup blocking? Also, a lot of EX Upper went without a followup combo which was a shame, methinks if you had connected EX Upper with a Jab/Short/X you’d have squared things off but it seemed like you threw them out then went back to down/back blocking waiting for the other player to make another move rather than keep the pressure on. Can’t really think of too much else on top of that, though, and I don’t think one movie is ever enough to judge, especially if it’s against a character you’re not familiar with (I’m just assuming you haven’t fought Sakura all too often?)
I know how you feel, though, I’ve recorded a hilarious instance where I met a Sakura in a Player Match who perfected me in the first round, I fought back the second round then perfected her in the third which was quite hilarious but still pretty embarassing, can be very tricky if you’re unsure how to approach the character and I just about barely kept my frustration in check after the first round
thansk rope, Yea definatly weak on the ex upper combos. That was the first time i ever played a decent Sakura so i was totally taken off guard. Since then ive spent a lot of time in training mode trying to get that ex upper loop going. I have a lot of trouble but im just sticking to practicing it
-Sakura’s fireball is a really bad zoning tool because it moves far too slowly to stop you from advancing and gaining ground. If she’s using it, just walk forward as far as you can and FA back dash it, and you’d have gained free ultra meter, as well as backed her closer into the corner.
-Don’t blindly jump in. Sakura’s AA options against Rog are solid. Her cr. HP will own you for free.
-You kept falling for the same trick. Keep in mind that Sakura can reset you after an ex shunpu and mix you up with a meaty from either side. This Sakura however, wasn’t mixing it up much and was always going for the cross-under option. Learn how to block it correctly.
-Learn how to pressure her effectively on wake up. You scored several knockdowns but didn’t really capitalize on them. Note that none of her non-ex special moves have invulnerability frames, and even if she does have meter, all her invulnerable reversal options (super, ultra, ex DP) are terribly slow and can all be safe jumped or meatied with properly timed cr. jabs. Against Sakura, you want to keep pressuring her as much as possible on wake-up to force her to burn meter so she can’t use it to mix you up.
-Work on punishing consistently. I saw you block a DP, but then you ended up getting punished instead because you mistimed your headbutt.
-You were getting predictable with your dash punches. Looks like you’re relying on them too much for chip damage and for closing distance. Note that Sakura has a lot of tools for punishing them, so don’t use them too often.
-Sakura has to work to get in against Rog so she can get her mix-up game started. Don’t rush in blindly. Take your time, play solidly, and don’t fall for obvious traps. If you watch that match, the Sakura player was backing up and waiting for you to throw a dash punch in so he could counter it and get his mix-ups going. Sakura doesn’t have any good options past mid-screen range, so it makes sense to assume that any decent player who is backing up to stay at that distance is just trying to bait out a dash punch and punish it. Don’t take the bait.
That may be true for other characters with slow fireballs, but not for Sakura, IMO. Unlike other cast members with slow fireballs (Guile, Chun Li, Dhalsim), she doesn’t have the set of tools or recovery speed to use her fireballs for effective traps. Guile’s and Chun Li recover fast enough to be reasonably safe at medium range, and they can follow it in to keep Rog from getting through it. Dhalsim on the other hand has stretchy limbs that work well to punish attempts to get around or through his fireball.
But as it is now, Sakura’s fireball recovery is too slow for it to be useful for traps at close range, and the slow movement speed makes it relatively easy to react to properly and safely from farther out.
Friendly bump - Really don’t want this thread off the front page, it should be up there and used more often/kept fresh for the learners (maybe even a sticky).
Sadly that means I’m once again back spamming movie links though I think I’m doing a bit better.
Ken - (Win) - [media=youtube]ZB4ojG4WNbg[/media] (I know it’s not much but 2:44 makes me smile every time even if it’s nothing special)
Ryu - (Loss) - [media=youtube]NFZRJY-w_8k[/media]
(Chris Hu Fan!)
I noticed something new with this one - I get what I call “MindBlock” during fights - I think at certain points/rounds in the fight (R2 vs Sagat / or the early portion of R2 vs Ryu) that things just seem to work then when something goes wrong I get stumped and resort to far too much downback/waiting/thinking - At one point I just got so spaced out I resorted to TAP constantly (though thats also a general habit I’m trying to work on at the moment).
I’ve worked a bit on my mobility, moving and using normals more but when above happens I resort to moving only with specials, which I know is BAAAAAAD, and lately I’ve been missing basic combos that normally I get out 99% of the time which is bothering me… Anyone care to share a pep talk / critique?
Keep this thread alive, peeps. So many threads being made by newcomers looking to learn and some/most of them really should see/use this thread!
