imo this matchup is even if not in vegas favor.
no bison does not outpoke vega.
if bison trys to j. mp vegas walldive all vega has to do is use the claw early and it beats bison.
vega beats bison in the air… nuff said.
Yeah, that’s a good explanation. If that’s the case though, it would be ironic that some of these players who hate “spam” will hypocritically use spam of their own when it suits them. How many Guile players will take it easy on a grappler by showing off the strength of Guile’s normals instead of sonic booming them away?
It’s a good idea for everyone to get used to spam because it’s an artificial rule; come tourney time, be ready or lose. In fact, I appreciate when other players intelligently spam moves against me (in this case, intelligent refers to good reading and execution in a low-lag setting) because it allows practice for some tactics that are normally reserved until tourney time. And even here, more experienced players can not only reach spam-viable situations more easily but they also perform the actual spamming tighter and with greater effectiveness.
People tend to be self-centered. BTW, for a good laugh [media=youtube]B-mEn9QprLI"[/media].
[media=youtube]chNu6MzZnGc&#t=7m48s"[/media], with dragon punches after negative edge, this is AE (not many examples in ST on YouTube).
[media=youtube]ekpxk0Mo5AE&#t=3m02s"[/media], same thing as above but an ST example versus Cammy.
[media=youtube]UprvpPenvb0&#t=1m20s"]Dhalsim perfect [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NJvlm96uT8”[/media] trap, no escape chance for Dictator without meter.
[media=youtube]jkcZ6pHsZ0A&#t=1m19s"[/media], nice comeback against Dictator.
[media=youtube]R1caHDIn7DM&#t=3m33s"[/media], wall diving his way to EVO2007 grand champion status.
[media=youtube]MGoFiNteQeU&#t=1m23s"[/media], no escape for Dictator.
By no means do I think boxer’s or claw’s stuff is easy, but really, when they get going it gets retarded. Sim offensive pressure? Defensive zoning? Is he suppose to have all that?
Granted its online, but a good boxer makes anything risky, even throwing a nice poke out can be risky if it trades with low rush. Walldive crossups to recrossups, its just hard to deal with this stuff when it does get going, and saying “well don’t let them get started” is much easier said then done.
Off-topic
That’s why purposely cornering yourself against Claw is an idea worth considering, even though rush-down can get you [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UU3ZkpsxYc”[/media] against him.
no offence taken, but you are not a dedicated guile player so I dont think you know how bad this matchup is. Guiles low forward does not stop rog’s low rushes, the only thing guile has to stop this are booms and flash kicks both of which rog can punish almost on reaction. This isnt a matter of me noy knowing the match up cos I have played many balrogs including yours and beaten them comfortably. The techniques u are talking about do not work against true rog players
Here im talking about dedicated rog players like smq, louie and legends. Like I said earlier I’ve seen other top guiles (who i consider better than me) ie marsgatti, diceman078 get hammered by top balrogs like legends and smq91. Now I know alot of factors come into playe online, frmake skips, lag and roll backs etc, but this matchup comes down a matter of design. Guiles moves do not afford him the opportunity to adequatly make a stand in this matchup, sure he can keep the average rog player, but what do you against rog players that dont headbutt through booms but rather simply float over them maintaining a constant distance from which guile remains ineffective.
you’re are just dumb there isnt a single spelling mistake the text you quoted.
Are you really that illiterate? I find it funny that someone of your “superior intelligence” managed to overlook these gems:
“deliberatly”
“yeild”
“subjegated”
P.S. Stay in school. School is good.
That’s true oldschool_BR. It would at least eliminate crossup Wall Dives from the picture. And I always wondered why ShootingD would run into the corner instead of trying to advance. Now I know. = J At least vs corner pressure, I’m not bad at reversalling walk up throws or punishing jumpins with Shoryukens, esp if that’s all I have to deal with. But vs crossup Wall Dives, I’m pretty useless. But even though the Dives don’t knock down in HDR, running into the corner might still be helpful, especially vs Claws that can maintain crossup Wall Dive pressure. Then they’ll be forced to rush Ryu down, and if they’re not good at that particular skill, all the better for Ryu.
Yeah, no prizes for beating my Balrog cause he’s one of my least used characters (wouldn’t mind learning him but I can’t play charge characters on that shitty D-pad). You’re right, I don’t know how bad the matchup is, hence I did say that Guile is one of my weakest characters (again, partly because of the D-pad), but given that Muteki calls this a 4/10 for Guile and Aniken considers it a 3.5/10 for Ken, I think I have some idea as to what the odds of winning are. To put it into context, Ken vs Balrog has the same odds as Ken vs Guile, but I wouldn’t call Guile broken. Incidentally, those matchups require completely different strategies, so as far as I’m concerned you can’t rely on a single strategy.
The thing that makes your strategy good is that Guile can move after a sonic boom, so you can throw booms and the opponent must block or destroy it. With Ryu or Ken, if they destroy it, they are stuck in recovery much longer than Guile, so Guile gets a free jump in kick to widen the health advantage and turtle for the rest of the game. Unfortunately Balrog moves much faster than Ryu or Ken, and so the fact that Guile can move after a projectile becomes less of a threat because Balrog can close up that space, even though the recovery is very short. This is why I feel your default gameplan isn’t working, because what used to be a big advantage, is becoming almost a non advantage due to Balrog’s rushdown style. That’s not to say that Guile doesn’t have any other advantages that you can use, and that’s what I was trying to point out.
One of the things I do with Ken if I bait a headbutt but I’m too far away to punish is, it to use the roundhouse huricane kick as a dash, so try thinking of weird ways how you can use your moves.
http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/guile/faroundhouse.html
Standing roundhouse, is of course a good way to advance forward while retaining charge if you need to position yourself better. You probably know this but I don’t think I’ve seen you use it because you tend to stay away rather than trying to get close.
Have you tried the overhead forward kick? I’ve yet to try it, but the way the hitboxes are seems like would beat a rush punch.
http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/guile/faforward.html
Sorry for making a mess of the screenshot, but I picked the medium rush punch and medium kick and overlayed them.
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7418/rogguile.jpg
Don’t just ignore advice because I’m no Guile player, it’s often good to get opinions from outsiders, because they can sometimes see what you are doing wrong if you aren’t. If you could, you wouldn’t be doing it wrong to begin with. I’m pretty sure there are some matches I play that you could tell me how to play better, even though you aren’t a Ken player, but I would listen to it all the same, because it’s not possible for me to think of everything. Even just the way people think of a matchup can make a difference, even if they play your character or not.
I would offer to help you test this out, but as I mentioned earlier because of the D-pad I can’t headbutt through booms as I’d like (half the time I get a rush punch or nothing at all because of how shit it is for registering directions). I’d be happy to help you test out certain moves/counters though because I know that playing against a top Balrog, isn’t really the time for experimentation. Find some scrubby Balrogs that you can beat easily, and take that chance to try different strategies or setups.
No one likes losing through experimenting, but sometimes you have to lose in order to win.
I only wish HDR had the ability to record in training mode.
I don’t play Guile or Rog, but my intuition tells me it’s largely clouded by online play. A lot of matchups are like that. Sim vs Honda, for instance is a match I’m pretty competitive in, but it is way, WAY harder online vs even mediocre Hondas. Balrog is a fast attacking force. Offline he can’t get away with quite as much. Don’t get me wrong. He’s still very good and can still rush you down. But it’s not quite as good as it is online.
I find it funnier that he wrote:
You’re are just as dumb.
And that he has been awfully quiet after being afraid to play me last night.
ok zero I see what your saying. I wasnt dismissing your advice, my apologies If I gave that impression, I was just pointing out that sometimes what should work on paper dosnt work in practise and alot of ppl who arnt guile players have said “do this” “do that” even though I’ve pointed out that those techniques dont work in practise and if they played the match up against good rog players using guile themselves they would be able to see this. Rog has large red hitboxes and long graphical limbs, yes you can hit his rushes from long distance but good rogs players dont rush in from full screen distances, they do it from a distance where they know their rushes cant be countered by a sobat, low forward or over head cos these moves have a startup time thats too long, even from long range, guiles low forward simply loses out to rogs low rushes.
afraid to play you, why should I be afraid, is my life in danger? You fool,…where did you get that impression? Probably from your vile imagination, I told you I only play in low ping matches, get a decent internet connection and get back to me. Like I said I owned you last time I bumped into you, so its you that has something to prove not me, as far as Im concerned the last time we played I beat EVERY character you threw at me including vega, it’s you that needs to redeem yourself.
This is what Im saying, when ppl post those youtube vids as examples of what to do in a certain matchup, they’re forgetting that those matches are played in ideal conditions, while the techniques can work online, 1 or 2 frame skips or input lag can cost you the match, especially against a strong character like rog
It’s cool man, I was just getting the feeling that you had already signed the matchup off as hopeless and wasn’t willing to try other stuff. Balrog isn’t so bad offline because frame skipping is a non issue, and also the local speed is slower than it is online, so you have a little more time to react to the rush punches.
You’re right about Balrog being a problem up close. He’s pretty much a problem from half screen too. It’s not a case of being overpowered in the corner, therefore Balrog is too strong, the idea is to keep him away at all times. Play some Ken vs Zangief and you will get what I mean about keeping him away. It’s kind of different Guile vs Zangief because with the cr.forward you can just throw booms and chip away at him with the forward. With Ryu and Ken it’s all about keeping him as far away as possible.
If he gets a little too close, try to score a knock down, bait a headbutt, block it and shoulder throw him back to the other side of the screen. Go for a tick throw. Remember that Balrog is easy to safe jump (just don’t do it too much or you will get headbutt grabbed). Basically what I’m saying is that Balrog is easy if he can’t get in your face. If he does get in your face, reversal flash kick, slow boom and he’s back out to a position which is more comfortable for Guile.
I think once you change your tactics a little to compensate for the matchup, you will end up wondering what all the fuss was about. You’ve got good reactions, good execution and you’ve got the charge times on lockdown. You’ve got a good chance of turning the matchup in your favour, but you need to come out of your shell so to speak. Remember that a moving target is harder to hit than a stationary one.
If you are just down back all the time booming and allowing him to get close so you can flash kick him back as you would most characters, things will turn sour because Balrog will just sit there with his jabs and rush punches and eventually chip you to death. He just needs one knock down to make life difficult, so don’t give him that chance in the first place. At the start of the round, try jumping back with the forward kick. This should in theory, stuff a low rush punch, which it seems a lot of Balrog players start with, plus it gives you a little space.
I know it’s a hard matchup, but it’s winnable. Apparently, Ryu or Vega should cause Guile slightly more problems than Balrog.
I’m wondering IrrepressibleGuile, since you say that Boxer is broken, what exactly isn’t working for you in that matchup?
Do you feel you are playing it correctly?
Have you made some real adjustments in your game to compensate for the things that don’t work for you?
I ask these questions because most bad matchups can be made competitive and even skewed in favor of the “weaker” character if the person playing the character actually took a bit of time to make the proper adjustments. For example: I used to think that Boxer and DeeJay were absolute no win situations for Blanka but after really taking the time to make the adjustments to my game and really learning what I can and can’t do, I’ve improved in those fights quite a bit.
I’m pretty sure Guile has the tools to deal with Boxer. Just make those adjustments!
would you mind sharing your adjustments with Blanka in the Blanka thread Decoy?
Sure thing man. I’m heading over there now…