Balrog is a broken character (rant warning)

Well let me explain using an example then.

Dhalsim whittles you down from a range over time with repeated pokes and zoning.

Dictator kills you if he hits you once.

Which of these two do you think benefit the most from lag ?

In regards to moves it’s a matter of how you have to react.

There is a lot of difference between hitting a SRK or a Flashkick/Headbutt/Flipkick you name it.

And reacting with a normals or air to air.

IMO lag (and especially the online speed increase) is mainly about the way it affects reaction based play: http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=203774&p=7296982&viewfull=1#post7296982

Pattern based play (such as combos or zone lockdowns or loops) may or may not be especially affected by lag, it would all depend on the nature of it and how much of it is reactionary or forces a reaction out of the opponent. I don’t really know Dhalsim or Dic enough to comment on those specific cases.

I don’t think Claw gains the most of all characters from lag, but here are a few things I’ve noticed when playing laggy Claws.

-Harder to react to Claw’s already fast jump speed
-Harder to determine where a wall dive is going and if it’s a fake
-Meaty roll is easiliy stopped by reversal, but if you miss the reversal because of lag you eat a ton of damage

Given Claw’s low damage output, it’s not so much Claw gets better as you have to change your game play to something much different. At least I do. I have to stop trying to reversal meaty rolls and just try to block more in general.

It’s matchup based.

It’s harder to play defense in lag than it tends to be to play offense.

That applies to all characters i just get annoyed by this seemingly consensus that Vega is not affected by lag.
And rather is helped by it.

Vega gains the most in lag? Not Ken or Gief?

Ah I see what you’re saying now. I would agree that Claw is not universally helped by lag. Well I agree if that’s what you’re saying because I think that’s what you’re saying. @_@

There are too many factors to consider to say who’s the best (both character specific and match up specific). I once played a Gief player where body splash became an instant overhead. I was not happy about that. I also know that laggy Boxer can be a pain because you don’t know when you can stand up or not.

Alright, even more experience gained last night at a casual gathering:

Rog VS Guile

Booms baby, keep em coming, there IS a sweet spot, it can go like this;

cr.mk and cr.lk can and WILL stuff the low dash punch, follow with boom to push him back. Be very careful of TAP, that WILL hit you if you are careless with your pokes, however, both your jabs and lks can be canceled into a FK on reaction to a TAP, free damage.

There is also a sweet spot for boom pressure, just outside the range of his frc headbutt, learn it, if he goes for the big headbutt, you can punish HARD, I use back sobats for positioning to get to this range. (because it can stuff lunges, and allows for quick booms.)

Do not forget that booms at point blank can stuff everything but the headbutt, if he aint crouching you can boom, throw out some cr jabs to see if hes a jumper, if he is you can easily deal with it.

Its a tense matchup, but Guile can make Boxers life suck real bad, the #1 thing you need to watch for is his super, however, if you are at the “sweet spot” for booms to bait the headbutt, you are also at the same sweet spot for the super, if he uses it to go through that boom, you can block or even jump over the super.

Last and certainly not least, I bet you have the whole thought “I know what hes going to do, yet he is still locking me down”, my answer to this is FLASH KICK HIM IN THE FACE, thats right, Flash Kick, as soon as you get his pattern down, you control everything, point blank FKs will destroy any kind of predictability in Boxer. Rog only has a couple of really solid “lockdown” strings, and if you see them coming, you CAN flash kick him, trust me.

I still have an easier time with Rog if im playing Sim, but Guile can do it, he has all the tools, its all about maintaining that perfect spacing, at this spacing, Rog has next to nothing but pure suprise tactics.

Exactly. Quoted for truth.

I think I’m taking you too literally, but just in case, wouldn’t cr. jab or cr. strong into boom better? Point blank boom doesn’t beat Boxer’s cr. jab, cr. strong, or throw; and that’s what Boxer will most likely do. There’s not a whole lot you can do about throw, but canceling a cr. jab or strong into a sonic boom makes it less likely for Boxer to interrupt your sonic boom, which sucks because not only did you just take damage, you also lost any charge you had.

Sounds risky, but if Boxer is being predictable, this is definitely the way to go. When you make this decision, you should be aware that if you guess wrong you could eat a low rush.

Yep! Just think about the new things that Boxer has been given since World Warrior onward. What are they meant to deal with? Projectiles! So, zone and punish.

So, can this thread die now? :slight_smile:

Jump back :hk: to punish? I do it with Ken all the time.

And yes, ONLY go for the point blank FK when he is falling into a pattern, I cannot stress this enough, if you are NOT thinking “oh I know exactly what hes gonna do” do not go for the FK, its also worth mentioning that I had more success with the lk fk over the new rh fk.

This is a risky option, I tried this only a couple times, and because Rog can change from the lunging forward punch to the uppercuts, I got juggled around a bit (not full damage, but it still hurt). I will experiment with this more as I am aware that the jump back RH is suprisingly fast. A good suggestion.

Just make sure to punish the first punch of his super; that’s the only one I bother to go after.

Hmmm, im also thinking a n. jump to RH on the way down, because, im usually just outside the frc headbutt range, if its timed to go through a boom (lol, it always is it seems) I should be on my way down at the right timing, it seemed like he was always hitting the second punch when I was in range with the jump back RH. (You may be using different spacing then i am here, im not sure)

I hate that charged uppercut whiff. It’s not easy to react on that cause he’ll grab you. Plus Boxer has a very solid mix up with those turn around punches so a good Boxer will pull off a super if you take the bait with that sonic boom.

I actually count on that happening, its a go to strat for Rog players, like I mentioned, there is a sweet spot where you can block/counter/punish his super/frc/str headbutt reaction to the boom. The trick is maintaining that spacing, at all costs, lol, if you dont, you WILL get owned in the face.

I’m not sure if it works out, but I think if you start holding d/b during the super flash, and then block the 2nd through 4th hits of the super, you should be able to flash kick or super just before the 5th hit.

Are you saying that the 4th and 5th hits don’t combo on block?

I thought that was the case - but apparently supers have more blockstun than other moves.