How does this work? I thought you would lose downcharge once you stood up for the CS.MK, and there is no charge partitioning in this game. Do you have to buffer in the headbutt as you are executing the CS.MK? I want to know because I’d like to try it, but I don’t understand what inputs to use.
yeh…in a sense.
you’re inputs look like: down+back, neutral+cl.mk, up+hp
it takes some practice, but you can do things like headbutt from st.lp, etc. but you generally, go from down back to up forward/up neutral/up back in a fluid motion, and press the standing normal when you’re in neutral.
You can headbutt from standing CS/FS.LP, CS.LK, CS.MP and CS.MK.
It’s not as hard as it looks, though that may be because I use keyboard. CS.MK seems to hit the hardest but I’ve not compared it’s damage to CS.MP (I just assume CS.MK does more, seeing as C.MP does less, if you get me).
I launch headbutt combos from standing jab primarily if the opponent is standing these days - There are games where I use too many cjabs to build charge so that the opponent has just barely been pushed a pixel out of cshort range thus losing the combo, whereas FS.Jab will hit almost all standing opponents at moderate range and just makes it more consistant for me - Of course this is impossible on crouchers but you usually have plenty of time to confirm what you need to use.
I’m sure anyone and everyone can combo from a standing Jab or close standing short - But up until I posted about it on SRK I seemed to be the only one who ever used close-standing MK into headbutt.
If you want I could make a brief movie showing the jab, short, csmp and csmk into headbutt for damage reference - Could include inputs but they always look messed up as presses count for a lot more than a stick or pad motion.
CS.LP HB - 160 Damage 250 Stun
CS.LM HB - 180 Damage 250 Stun
CS.MP HB - 210 Damage 300 Stun // C.MP HB - 210 Damage 300 Stun
CS.MK HB - 230 Damage 300 Stun
CS.MK & CS.MP can be combo’d into from one, maybe two cjabs (hitbox / spacing dependant) before headbutt - Both become far-standing at a short distance so you’d be hard pushed even getting in two jabs. It’s basically a punish for whiffed up close moves or, more favourably, a focus attack (L3)
This makes them possible as jumpin’ punishes as well - Jumping Fierce, CS.MP or CS.MK Headbutt does quite nice damage and stun I assume, can be done without additional CJabs for max effect but that is charge dependant.
I can make a video of a bunch of these.
Edit:
Just confirming now - You can combo from a deep/close jumpin with a JFP/JRH, Cjab (x0 or x1 or x2) into either CSMK or CSMP followed by a Headbutt - C.MP does the same damage/stun as CS.MP so overall it’s not really worth it unless you want to look cool doing something uncommon.
MK hits harder than crouching & standing MP but only by a little - It’d be much harder to combo reliably from it compared to the much easier/more versatile MP’s. It can be used to launch a headbutt or more commonly it can be used to start RU Loops - Seeing as it hits harder than MP but isn’t very combo’able in comparison, it’s best used as the starter to a RU Loop but to revert to CMP or Jabs/Shorts after the first EX.
Example:
JRH/JFP - CSMK EXRU CLP CMP HB would do quite nice damage.
also, don’t forget:
Someone might find a max damage/stun combination
Here’s a vid showing mostly standing headbutts and a few uses of CS.MK.
[media=youtube]RkJkXcAC26k[/media]
Made it today for the thread - If it’s of any interest feel free to give it a thumbs up seeing as some people seem to like automatically downvoting any vid I make trying to be helpful here >.>
CS.MK is certainly nice in terms of damage and combo startup just it’s difficult to follow it up compared to CMP.
As for the question of how you combo a headbutt from a standing normal, you go from down, to back, to up (Think of it like a pad/stick semi circle upwards), pressing the normal you want when holding back before the UP+Punch for the Headbutt. I use Keyboard so it’s a bit different for me but thats as best as I can explain it with a pad/stick in mind - It’s not that difficult really. It’ll work on anything within a certain frame limit, so anything excluding FSMP (Not confirmed this - Anytime I’ve gone for a FSMP it’s never hit within a combo and I’ve not bothered to try it on it’s own at certain ranges), FSMK, RH’s and FP’s is fair game.
CS LP, FS LP
CS LK, FS LK
CS MK
CS MP
Also found this today. Pretty nice reset, almost instant stun on the whole cast if it lands, and it’s safe on block (fodder for reversals though).
Any combo into headbutt, charge TAP and down+back, wait until Balrog crouches, then release TAP. If they tech the knockdown, you get a meaty tap and can be as much as +8 and some change on hit. If they block it, you’re positive, if it hits, you can combo into cr.mp xx ex.ru, or st.lp, ex.ru into a combo and instant stun. You can also do something like hp.OH, cr.mp xx hp.hb, TAP, cr.mp xx hp.hb and get stun as well.
Thanks both of you, that info is very helpful I finally got a chance to hit the training room last night and experimented with the standing headbutts. Shit’s awesome!
Rope may have showed in his video, but standing normals into OH is possible. Crazy mind-fuck, OOOLD technology.
Yep - Even -R- lately has been using CS.MK into OH attempts, it looks weird and it’s similar to something I have been using religiously for ages, and thats my age old CMP into OH on wakeup except CMP is obviously not a standing move. Anything that can mask the OH in anyway is a bonus. Trying to find a vid of me using the same old trick but I seem to have gotten rid of most of the recent ones - Doesn’t matter anyways as the point is about standing normals into OH.
check out some applications of the meaty TAP and DP bait:
[media=youtube]-YfmFYWfXes[/media]
Allow me to retort! Tried it for myself, very nice! Decided to use my own shinanigans before & after it (Not much different from abvoe version) and as unpractical and unviable as it is (Near impossible to land that in a real match of course) it still kills Akuma 100% 
[media=youtube]3ATS3JjAPmo[/media]
Posted it as a video response to yours - Hope thats alright.
very nice. I think the only thing difficult to land in the match is a meaty TAP. There are a couple different variances on meaty TAP that can account for some of the opponent’s reversal options (e.g. distance it so that you’re not so deep in their hurtbox and wakeup DP will trade or hit on the second hit so they can’t FADC etc.)
These are very very nice findings. But they aren’t really combos, wouldn’t it be wise to make a Setup/Okizeme thread so tech as useful as this don’t get lost in oblivion?
Both are combos, it’s just that the second creates a link off of a meaty TAP versus a hit-confirm. The last part isn’t, and is an oki option.
A new combo thread probably needs to be made versus a thread specifically about tech, there are a handful of those that already exist that are lost. If a new combo thread gets made that’s one of the items that should be added, what to do after a CH lvl 1 TAP or specific meaty setups. For example I land a meaty cr.lp, what’s my most damaging link? the answer would be cr.mk since a meaty cr.lp would put you at +8, and given spacing/hitbox you could combo into lp.ds, cr.mp, ex.ru or super so forth and so on. I think that’s also something most combo threads miss, combos off of meaty attacks or VERY character specific combos.
The Cammy thread is a good example although i haven’t looked at it in a long time. And in general, i’ve found that we don’t get enough talkative traffic to warrant creating too many threads. Most if not all information should be consolidated as much as possible to keep information accessible. (obviously in my opinion)
Would certainly be nice to make a completely fresh combo thread - And by that I mean a primary post containing practically all of them, with a massive list to combos off specific normals, leaving discussion for afterwards so others can add additional info that could be edited into the primary post. Reminds me of my “70+ Begginer Headbutt Combos” video of old - That was made pushing on three years ago - I’ve sinced learned god knows how many more in that time, much like everyone else has learned endless new info which is hard to discuss in a thread that is so scattered over, like, 20 pages.
In my experience it’s never a bad thing to make a fresh start and neaten things up.
I’ve got a couple of ideas about a combo thread, I just dont’ want to moderate it. If someone wants to moderate a combo thread, I can give them what I have and we can work on it together in this thread, and then have that person post the final work with all the damage and stun values. And then get it stickied.
My bad, I put too much emphasis on its setup that I forgot that the point of it was linking cr.lk after TAP. I should get more sleep…
I’d be willing to make a new thread for combos or setups that would have everything in the OP. But I can barely keep up with the QnA thread (that nobody uses btw.)
Well I’m more of a passing stranger who chips in their opinions then buggers off until more posts show up - Not suitable to Modding a thread, really. I used to moderate a thread listing opponents in the SF4 Forum for PC Users looking for regular opponenets / who they play / where they’re located (Ping) but after AE was released I took a hiatus and someone else recreated the same thread from scratch while I was inactive.
I’m definately up for contributing in any way I can and I do personally vote for a nice, clean, fresh thread.
well lets get started. Here’s what I had put together for a combo thread:
[details=Spoiler]One of the most successful combo methodologies i’ve seen is a combination of single solutions that fulfill the following situations:
[LIST=1]
[]Meterless hit-confirm combo
[]Hit-confirm into Super
[]Hit-confirm into Ultra
[]Hit-confirm block-string
[]Highest damage meterless punish
[/LIST]
With that kind of methodology, you create a highly predictable (and practice-able) combo game. You “know” whether or not your combos will kill, their damage/stun, the characters it doesn’t work on in additional to near perfect execution. In your blockstring you know the exact break points; so if an opponent mashes in your block string, you now when to pause and punish. For example, lets say we use vanilla classics to fufill the requirements:
[LIST=1]
[]Meterless hit-confirm: cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk xx hp.hb DMG|STUN
[]Hit-confirm into Super: cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk xx hp.ds xx Super DMG|STUN
[]Hit-confirm into Ultra: cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk xx hp.hb, U1/Super DMG|STUN
[]Hit-confirm block-string: cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk xx lp.ds DMG|STUN
[]Highest damage meterless punish: cr.mp xx hp.ds/hk.smash DMG|STUN
[/LIST]
The damage is rather dismal in AE, but the concept is still the same. Most balrog’s have a 90% if not 100% execution rate with jab jab short headbutt. Using it as your sole hit-confirm doesn’t net you a lot of damage, but it makes the outcome to your hit-confirms very predictable. With the block string, there’s only a single breakpoint, and that’s in the time between cr.lp and cr.lk. Execution can make that link on block unpunishable, but that’s VERY difficult, thus since no-one attempts to mash between jabs because of rog’s godly startup and frame advantage, that’s the only place where one might attempt to mash, and so you get a free mid-low mixup and chip damage.
Once you master that kind of combo methodology, you can modify it for character specific matchups and setups. Those kind of decisions involve using 2 EX bars to take your opp to the corner versus burning revenge meter to take your opp to the corner or comboing into cr.hk or st.hk not giving them an opportunity to breathe or ending the combo on their feet.
The bottom line is that combos should serve one purpose: to cause damage and to give favorable positioning. Unlike footsies, combos can work 100%. If you hit-confirm and you practice enough, its possible to have an 100% execution rate.
jump-in ___ hit-confirm ___ combo extender ___ knockdown ______ techable
|_ punish _| |_ damage |_ untechable
|_ spacing
|_ juggle ___ super/ultra 1
Hit confirms - safe® blockstrings
[LIST]
[]j.hk/j.hp, cr.lk
[]j.hk/j.hp, cl.hk*
[]cr.lp, cr.lp, st.lp
[]cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk
[]cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.mp
[]j.hk/j.hp, cr.lp, cl.mp (force stand)
[*]cr.mk, cr.lk
[/LIST]
*delay cl.hk for more consistent results
Combo for stun
[LIST]
[]j.hk, clk.hk, cr.mp xx hp.ds
[]j.hk, cl.hk, cr.mp xx ex.ru, cr.lp, cr.mp xx ex.ru, cr.lp >
[]st.lp, cr.mp xx hp.ds
[]st.lp, st.hk
[/LIST]
Combos for damage
[LIST]
[]j.hk, cl.hk, cr.mp xx hp.ds xx super
[]j.hk, cr.mk, cr.mp xx hp.hb, U1
[]j.hk, cl.hk, st.lp, st.hk
[/LIST]
Counterhit combos
[LIST]
[]lvl 1 TAP, cr.lp, cr.lp, st.lp, st.hk
[]cr.lp, cr.hk
[]cr.mk, Ultra 1*
[]cl.hk, Ultra 1
[*]cr.mp, cr.lp, st.lp, st/cr.hk
[/LIST]
*Activate with kicks and hold punches/nothing to get the 10f startup
Punish combos
[LIST]
[]cr.mp xx hp.ds/hb
[]cr.mp xx hp.ds xx super
[]cl.hk, cr.mp xx hp.ds xx super
[]st.lp, Ultra 1
[/LIST]
Juggle combos
[LIST]
[]AA TAP, Ultra 1/Super
[]lvl 2 FA, bwd/fwd.dash, TAP, Ultra 1/Super
[]AA hp/ex.ds, Ultra 1/Super
[]AA hk/ex.ru, Ultra 1/Super
[]AA lvl3 FA, fwd.dash, TAP, Ultra 1
[]lp/mp/hp/ex.hb, Ultra 1/Super
[/LIST]
Combo enders
[LIST]
[]cr.lp, st.lp, st/cr.hk
[]cr.lp, st.lp, cr.mp xx ds/ru
[]cr.lp, cr.lk xx ds/ru
[]cr.lp, cr.mp xx ds/ru
[]cr.lp, cl.hp
[]cr.lp, cr.hp
[/LIST]
Character specific links
[LIST]
[]j.hk, cr.mk, cl.mp
[]j.hk, cr.mk, st.mp
[]ex.ru, cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk xx hb/ds/ru
[]j.hp/j.hk, cl.hp, cr.lp, st.lp xx
[]OH, cr.lp, cr.lk, cr.mp xx hb/ds/ru
[]OH, lp/mp.hb
[]j.hk, cr.mk, cl.mk xx hb/ds/ru
[/LIST]
FADC combos
[LIST]
[]j.hk, cl.hk, cr.mp xx hk.ru/hp.ds xx FADC, etc
[]-cr.lp, cl.hk, st.lp, st/cr.hk
[]-cr.lp, cl.hk, cr.mp xx hp.ds
[]-cr.lp, cl.hp
[]OH xx FADC,
[]-cr.lp, cl.hk, cr.mp xx hp.hb
[]-cr.mk, st/cr.lp, cr.mp xx hp.ds
[]-cl.mp, st/cr.lp, cr.mp xx ex.ru
[/LIST]
Weird combos
[LIST]
[]j.hp/j.hk, cr.mk, cr.hp xx super
[]j.hp, cr.mk, lp.ds xx super
[]j.hp, cl.hk, lp.ds xx super
[]j.hp, cr.mk, ex.ru, etc
[]cr.mp xx ex.ru, cr.lp/cr.lk xx lk/ex.smash*
[/LIST]
*the cr.mp has to occur late (e.g. not hit at 1 jab distance) to get the back charge to cancel into the special.
Bread and Butters
Beginner
cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk xx hp.hb Doesn’t work on crouching Blanka or Juri
cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk xx hp.ds
cr.lp, cr.lp, st.lp, cr/st.hk **Doesn’t work against Yun or Yang point blank
Intermediate
cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.mp xx hp.hb*
cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.mp xx hp.ds
cr.lp, st.lp, cr.mp xx hp.ds
*hp.hb whill whiff of crouching opponents at max distance
Advanced
cr.lk, cr.lp, st.lp, st/cr.hk
cr.lp, cl.hk, st.lp, st/cr.hk
cr.lp, cl.hk, cr.mp xx hp.ds
cr.lp, cl.mp, cr.lp, cr.mp xx hp.ds
cr.lp, cl.mp, cr.lp, st.lp, st/cr.hk
Combos into Super
Beginner
cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk xx hp.hb
cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk xx hp.ds xx super
lvl ? TAP xx super
Intermediate
cr.mk, cr.mp xx hp.ds xx super
Advanced
j.hk, cl.hk, cr.mp xx hp.ds xx super
Weird
OH, cr.hp xx super
Combos into Ultra
Beginner
cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.lk xx hp.hb, Ultra 1
FA lvl2/lvl3, Ultra 1
Intermediate
AA TAP, Ultra 1
AA hk/ex.ru|hp/ex.ds, Ultra 1
Advanced
st.lp, Ultra 1
Weird
OH, Ultra 1[/details]