I’m creating some threads on the forums about how to balance the characters. I’ll only start threads on characters which I have fought with very, very much. For other characters, feel free to start a thread on your own =)
The concept is just to put out there what you think would perfectly balance a character that you have great experience with. You may add one new move to the character if you feel there is a strong deficiency that can only be resolved with a new move. Also, add a third Ultra which you feel would help the fighter with difficult matchups. Also, please refrain from ridiculing others’ ideas… it would be better to provide your own ideas and politely comment on why you would not do what others have proposed.
Vega
Ultras:
Ultra I hits on the way up in SSFIV, making it both a terrific anti-air counter, and a good projectile counter. Because it is now so powerful, I feel it needs a damage reduction from 480 to 420. I main Vega, but I have to admit that the move is overpowered as is.
Ultra II needs a purpose. With Ultra I being anti-air and anti-projectile, and having been more damaging to boot, I propose that Ultra II the more damaging Ultra for Vega, but also a more difficult Ultra to hit. Ultra II should no longer go through projectiles, but should do 480 damage. This makes Ultra II a punisher ultra, used to do massive damage to an opponent after a miss.
Ultra III would be called “Vanity Counter.” The command is DN, DN, DN + All Punch. Vega’s mask must be off in order to perform this Ultra. Upon inputting the command, Vega says in a short cut-scene, “Do not touch my face.” For the next 8 seconds, Vega’s face glows slightly. During this time, any overhead attacks, any standing attacks against a crouched Vega, and any dragon punch type attacks against Vega start the counter. Once the counter begins, Vega says, “Perhaps you did not hear me.” Vega steps on the foot of the opponent, slashing their face repeatedly before performing a slashing uppercut that launches them high into the air. Vega leaps into the air, grabs them, and performs a spinning Izuna Drop. Damage is 400. This move cannot be used as an immediate counter since the effect does not begin until Vega’s face is glowing, about 1 second after the input.
Specials:
I feel that most of Vega’s special moves are fine at this time. One exception is that I feel there is no real use for the EX version of Rolling Crystal Flash, so I would remove it to accomodate one new special for Vega that I think is needed.
The other exception is that Sky High Claw should receive a 30 point damage increase. It should be 140 instead of 110.
Vega’s biggest weakness occurs when he is trapped in the corner. Therefore, I suggest that Vega receive the ability to front flip by pressing forward/down and All Punch. This would allow Vega to escape the corner, while not giving him an unpunishable way out of the corner. There would be no kick version, as I feel players would use it as an unfair way to approach opponents while invincible.
Command Normals:
All are fine to me.
Normals:
The only change I would like to see here is a slightly higher damage rating for crouching HP since it is rather difficult to hit, and Vega needs a normal with higher damage.
So what are your ideas? Do you agree, do you disagree? Let’s see =)
sorry but lol. You really should do more research before posting these things, it really makes it seem like you know very little about the character. U1 has no invincibility frames and you can get knocked out of it before you even start the attack. And U2 is vegas ONLY invincible move(besides the flips) which allows him to use it usefully on his wakeup when people are applying too much pressure or abuse his lack of anti airs. U1 is not an anti air since almost any air attack will beat it out.
Vega doesn’t need to be balanced, they just need to give him a little more umph so he can accel in one area, right now they don’t really allow him to accel in anything (he doesn’t have that great range/priority, isn’t as fast as he was in previous games, has no save anti air, can’t really combo into either ultra, can’t apply much pressure besides izuna vortex, etc.)
Vegas ex rcf goes through projectiles
and how can you not mention maybe altering some hitboxes so his claw actually gives some range to his normals so he can at least play the keep away game a little better.
So yeah, I suggest sticking to characters you know better so you don’t make your self seem kinda “noobish”
If you want to give him a better fighting chance, he prolly needs some invincibility on his ST and maybe U1. Then let him ex cancel his ST and wall dives to open up some more mind games and maybe allow for more reliable combos into his ultras. Maybe even boost his damage or range/hitboxes so losing his claw and mask can have a bigger purpose(to keep him from being too powerful).
I have an 85% win rate with Vega on Xbox Live, and I’ve mained him since SSFII. I think I know a little.
I don’t personally use U1 as an anti-air move, but I know many of the upper tier Vegas do because you can catch a neutral jump before the opponent attacks. Just because you don’t use the strategy doesn’t mean that it isn’t very viable. My changes don’t change the U2’s ability to hit a falling aerial attacker.
What you are describing is called “balancing.” He also can combo into U2 via Cosmic Heel, usually being Cosmic Heel, crouching MP, U2. Timing has to be perfect, but its doable.
And is still useless. If you’re going through a projectile with a roll, there’s way too much space between you and the opponent for a roll to be intelligent in any way. EX Sky High Claw is how you punish projectile spammers.
I already hit opponents from half screen with crouching MP, plus I have Scarlet Terror, plus I have an invincible back flip. I don’t have any problem playing “keep away” unless I’m in a corner.
If you’d like to provide an XBL gamertag, I’ll be happy to beat you and post it here =)
His ST probably needs higher priority, but I think its a very bad idea to make U1 have invincibility… it will be so overpowered its insane. As for mind games, I find that Vega is one of the very best at playing mindgames using Flying Barcelona in varying ways to keep the opponent guessing. Mixing it with Sky High Claw is very difficult for opponents. Boosting his damage might be something to look at (such as Sky High Claw), but his range is already one of the best.
Once again, I main Vega. I want him to be very good, but I don’t want any god tier characters.
I started off interested and ended up dissappointed…
U1 might be his worst anti-air, lol… if you don’t get smacked in the face and lose your meter, you’ll nail them in the air and not connect the rest of it (ie the damaging part)
The only real changes I’d make are:
(1) Extend hitbox when claw is attached… looking at the hitboxes makes it seem like capcom got lazy
(2) A real anti-air/anti-pressure type move that isn’t an Ultra
(3) Jab not a one frame link :-P… let me get Bison off me!
Unreasonable requests:
(1) Ultra 1 has invincibility on activation
(2) Maybe a grab ultra?!? (Imagine df+HK into some kind of awesome animation grab ultra similar to his lvl 3 super in SFA3)
(3) Quit making his charges db! I hate that position!
How can we comment on what would perfectly balance Vega if we don’t know what we’re attempting to balance him with? There’s no possible way to make him “perfectly balanced”, since the rest of the game itself isn’t perfectly balanced. We would have to assume that every other aspect of the game was perfectly balanced before we’d be able to comment on what would have to be changed in regards to Vega in order to make him balanced.
-Forward flip is a fun idea, I’ve heard it suggested before in the improvement thread.
-SHC (non-EX) does need to be less assy, for such a risky move. At the least it should not be punishable on hit.
-He needs a few better normals, particularly AA normals
-U1 is a very situational AA, not a reliable one.
-EX RCF is very useful. Its projectile invincibility is instant and it has long range. Have you ever been meatied with a fireball or projectile Ultra and tried to wake up with EX SHC? You’ll get knocked out of it, and EX ST might not have the range to punish, so EX RCF is great.
P.S.- This thread WILL deteriorate into flames and arguments about inv frames.
So do i. In fact i was number 2 Vega for a month. guess what you dont know much.
Upper tier Vega’s always use Ultra 2. Period. Punishing a tiger knee string, A tatsu mix up on wake up. Please the use of Ultra 2 far outweights any guessing game Ultra 1 has.
EX Sky High is not how you punish spammers. Why would you be full screen away from a fireball character. Again it shows you know nothing. You have to be in between cr.lp and st.hp range to maximize punishment options and link your pokes for maximum damage. AS for EX RCF being useless? Wow it shows how you dont know anything about Vega. Did you know that EX RCF punishes Rufus Galactic Tornado strings. If you have meter, Rufus shouldnt be doing GAlactic Tornado strings. Thats 180 damage right there.
Any decent Vega know that keep away is the stupidest way to play. You constantly have to keep them out using pokes and footsies. And once you have the lead keep it up. If you lay of the pressure you let them in for free. You get knocked down and you lose.
Dont be so cocky. ST has a great hit box. Learn to use it. Throwing random EX FBA is a waste of meter. You are practicly doing the move and hoping that it hits. That isnt a mind game thats pushing a button and getting lucky.
Ultra 1: Not a terrific antiair because you hit through on the knee and MISS the rest. You can be JABBED out of it on startup. It really isn’t good.
Overpowered damage? Please. Tell that to Blanka’s ultra 1 and it’s obscene damage and even more obscene chip for blocking it.
Ultra 2: It only goes through projectiles frame 1 through 15. NOT A VERY LONG TIME. So you have to be close. You’d be stupid being at the other end of the screen with Vega anyway.
I have yet to see a high tiered Vega use ultra 1. All of them use Ultra 2 because it is good.
Ultra 3 concept: Counter ultras suck. End of discussion. While it would look flashy, that’s really not useful. Plus you don’t want your mask off. Ever.
EX RCF has it’s uses, as Deuy already stated so I’m not going over them again.
I don’t think damage is the problem here with SHC, it’s the damned recovery frames and the fact it’s ASS. The EX version has a use, but you have to be dead on response with it or you’re eating a big combo to the face.
The front flip idea, yeah fun and all, but if it’s like the PPP version of his backflip, they just turn and backthrow you back into the corner. Not fun.
crHP. I personally think it’s fine as it is but that’s just me.
I have a better idea for Ultra 3. It would be call “Fucking Claw” and must be performed without the claw. It’s qcf x2 + PPP, and it is a fireball ultra (hits twice for 110 damage). If it hits, Vega loses the round. If it whiffs or gets blocked, Vega chuckles and flies away, getting replaced by Fei Long for the duration of the fight.
Lol, your win ratio online has nothing to do with ur skill, the players u usually fight can be mostly good or can mostly suck(we dont know). And based off of how you speak, yo u really seem like you know very little. First of all SF2 has NOTHING to do with this game, it’s completely different. Second of all, the things you said to “balance” vega, make almost no sense. If all you do is backflip to get out of danger and win many matches, then ur def playing unskilled players, any good player will bait the flip and punish you on the recovery, thats y most vegas dont use that move too often. About U1, I use it all the time and rarely use U2, so I know that it can be used to punish jumps, but it’s not an anti air, a shoryuken is an anti air. U1 is just a punisher for ppl whiffing moves/jumps.
I have nothing to prove to u or the other members of this forum, YOU are the one making a fool of yourself. If yo u want to try and beat me, then hop on a PS3 and play me or i’ll let u know if i go to my friend’s house who has a 360 (prolly not a for awhile). The fact that almost everyone is telling u to get out just shows that you know very little about what ur talking about. You shoulda have just gracefully bowed out from the begging instead of trying to argue with ppl over the internet (the internet doesn’t make u tough)
Sorry Im not an “Upper Tier Vega” lol <— that was sarcasm because you said Upper Tier Vega Player before and it makes no logical sense lol
After playing the game longer and understanding Vega alot more I feel like he is almost complete but very playable. I guess it would be nice to have a better hit box on cr fierce or some other normals, but I can use them fine just the way they are.
I still feel like the main thing he needs is for FBA to have a feint. I also feel that he should have a few frames cut from his jump and 2 frames cut from his forward dash.
Other than that they can make SHC useful by making it faster, and less laggy, and knockdown on hit, and maybe able to hit crouching opponents. I don’t care so much for the crappy dmg as I do for its crappyness in general.
For EX ST more I frames to projectiles would be nice
To make BHC even remotely useful they could start by making it very accurate and maybe make it a command ultra.
If I were to give vega a new tool I think a crossup like jump fierce or jump mk would be nice.
The ability to front-flip to escape corner pressure? A counter ultra? Hell, he’d be the new Akuma with this shit (Broken). I found most of this silly to be honest.
The thing that makes U2 useful is that 1. It’s very fast and can catch rushing opponents off guard 2. It can go through projectiles (Invincibility Frames). Why the hell would you take that away for 480 damage? In competitive play, the only way you’ll consistantly hit U2 is if it can go through projectiles and keep it’s invincibility frames. Most people would just turtle and/or zone Vega in that case. And the fact that U2 wouldn’t be able to go through projectiles would make it that much harder for Vega is escape the zone. I know the main priority of U2 is it’s ability to escape pressure, Vega’s main weakness in Vanilla, but taking it’s invincibility away is crazy talk bro. With that, Vega now has another option to escaping pressure AND the zone.
Hell, I’ve been c.lp’d by Ryu out of Vega’s U1 in Vanilla so many damn times…KEEP THE INVINCIBILITY! I mean once Vega hits the wall, it’s all good, but you have to make it to that wall first!
As for Vega’s EX RCF, I think it’s needs a much faster start-up, so it can be combo’d. LP RCF is beautiful, maybe EX could have the same start-up frames, but larger hitboxes on the beginning roll than LP RCF. Unless you’re in their face, that first attack in LP RCF won’t hit, and you’ll get blocked.
And if you think U1 is reliable, than you haven’t been playing Vega for over a year like that rest of us. U2 FTW bro. I had my doubts at first, because I thought it’d be like Akuma’s Raging Demon (which is terrible, only to balance his ass out) but it’s an awesome Ultra.
And at your U3…that shit is funny. Creative though.
