good to know, thanks
I think we should get most, or at least a majority of the Gen players in here to vote or sort of agree on things that should be buffed first (priority). And possibly compile a list and send it to Capcom- Unity, because if everyone just leaves their wishlists down, Capcom may end up either getting confused, or not really addressing Gen’s main problems anyway. Maybe a vote system, where people decide as a community what would be the best for Capcom to address?
- invincible ex oga
- FADCable gekiro
- better mk/hk gekiro hitboxes
- mantis u2 fully connecting on airborne opponents
- oga recovery a bit safer when blocked!!!
lk giekro inv until frame 6
that is all
That would be nice. Lacks the brutal OP joy of invincible EX oga though.
Also, we NEED a controllable way to make Gen say “You are a big fool.” during the match.
down+taunt.
EX Oga won’t make its reappearance. No matter how much we ask for it. Even if it is horribly punishable.
Honestly, I find Gen pretty damn solid the way he is right now. I’d only ask for maybe two things.
- Either buff the damage on Mantis U2 significantly (ie. by 1 or 2 hundred damage) because it’s focus/white damage, or make it do something else. Even if it means (m) U2 doing exactly what it did in Alpha 3 (which I wouldn’t complain too much about).
- Buff LK gekirou invincibility. Invulnerable until frame 5 or 6 would be just fine with me. Yeah, FADCable Gekirou would be hilarious, but I seriously doubt they would put it in.
Everything else can pretty much stay as is. It’d be great if they re-added vanilla EX Oga, though. It feels like EX Oga right now doesn’t really do shit.
EDIT: Thought of one last thing I might like to see. Maybe the return of the vanilla SF4 jump arc?
i just thought of one thing: make his EX gekiro hitbox reach to the bottom. It feels so dumb when I see Blanka meaty sliding me on my wakeup yet I cannot do anything but block, super or ultra.
Great Requests/Suggestions guys. Please post them on this Thread at Capcom-Unity -
Level 1 FA dash would be nice if it wasn’t freely throwable (SPDs etc.). Make it -1 instead of -3 please.
Do not buff Oga on frames (vanilla hitboxes again would be nice). Do not make wtf FADCable.
Copying and pasting what I posted on Capcom-Unity.
I’ll split this up a little, because I wouldn’t exactly consider a bug fix to be a buff.
Fixes:
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The landing frame glitch. If you aren’t familiar with it: When you do an attack in the air, any attack you attempt during your landing frames will be buffered and performed as soon as the landing frames are over. That’s true for all characters. Gen has a bug where if you stance change in the air, the landing frame buffer will give you an attack from the previous stance. This has been known about for 2.5 years, it’s past time it was fixed.
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Not sure if it could be considered a bug, but Crane ultra 2 (the dive kick ultra) never activates at the height you’re at in your jump. Whether you’re at the peak of the jump or the minimum height, the ultra always starts slightly above head level.
My personal wishlist for buffs:
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Make Mantis ultra 2 less terrible. I don’t expect him to have 4 amazing ultras, but this one’s a cruel joke. Make it do real damage, give it the full animation against an airborne opponent (like Yang’s…), make it do a TON of gray damage, or anything else.
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Crane stance needs to be more solid. Make c.MK and c.HP faster, make s.HK invincibile to lows or throws or both. Make the roll charge faster (slowest charge move in the game right now) and give him hit confirms from crane c.jab to c.MP to LP roll. Make Crane c.jab chainable.
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Make Crane ultra 1 (anti-air ultra) better. It’s not as terrible as the gray damage ultra, but it’s still bad and outclassed in almost every way by Mantis ultra 1. It’s too slow to start, and Gen recovers only 2 frames before the opponent stands. It’s an ultra with less of an advantage on hit than your average jab.
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Make his jumps faster. If Yun and Yang can have fast jumps with multiple dive kick angles, why can’t Gen have a fast jump with nothing else special about it?
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Give back the old s.MK range. This wouldn’t bring back the MK hands loop (the extra pushback would still prevent that) but it would help his footsies in Mantis, where he suffers from his mediocre walk speed.
So keep the jump arcs but make the jumps quicker?
I’d approve of this provided we still had ways to time safe jumps etc. using normals, if ©2mk had the frames taken off its startup added to its active frames (lol, it’d be awesome) so that it would go under pretty much all projectiles instead of just most. Roll charge I’m not too fussed on, they’d have to decrease its charge by the entire duration of a normal (jab or short) to have any effect in combos (higher damage through less scaling) but would be quite nice. Nobody has said anything about mine - its like noone even read them…
I guess I meant his old jump speed/arcs. There were safe jump setups with those too, don’t worry.
Also, I’m guessing people just don’t like your notation. Can’t really add much to what you originally said about the s.LKs though, but I’m glad I’m not the only person who hates the weak advantage after crane U1. I did respond to one of your posts in the Unity thread though.
I have a better idea. Delete Gen, so I can stop getting pissed off.
Copy pasting what I posted.
IMPERATIVE CHANGES:
Raise Gen’s meter gain, it’s easily the lowest in the game. I’m not asking to reverse the 33%/66% reductions from Vanilla, but it’s ridiculous that a full 8-hit heavy Gekiro with all the time and effort to pull off builds less meter than a whiffed light Shoryuken.
Gekiro itself is in need of consideration, as it is incredibly unreliable as a reversal or anti-air. Improved hitboxes for mid and heavy versions would be nice, and some added invincibility would really make me happy. EX in particular should have a hitbox that extends all the way to the ground, certain attacks can slide straight under it.
Landing frame glitch is another important issue that needs to be addressed and it’s been in the game since Vanilla.
Mantis U2 is also in important move to look at, it’s easily the worst ultra in the game. It’s absolutely useless in most matchups, and outclassed by his 3 other ultras in most situations where you might be able to use it. It should at least be able to connect fully on airborne opponents and either do more gray damage, or delay the healing of gray damage a bit. At the moment, gray damage begins healing just after the opponent stands up, which makes full damage on the Ultra virtually impossible unless they’re hit as they’re getting up.
Additionally, there is currently a glitch where Gen’s crouching heavy punch in Crane form takes 250% damage on counterhit, making Gen the only character in the game that can be killed in a single attack. This needs to be fixed.
WANTED CHANGES:
EX Oga is currently useless, I have yet to encounter any situation where EX Oga can ever be used. If anything, EX Roll is currently a better fireball evade tool, as it will punish most fireballs as well as escape. If the EX Oga Vanilla invincibility is unreasonable, please make some sort of buff to the resultant wall/ceiling dive.
Crane normals, though greatly improved from Vanilla, still feel like they could be improved a touch more. As far as I can tell, every single normal and special move in Crane form is minus on block.
Bring back dead body hits after round end or, as Gen was the only character functionally affected by this change, allow stance to be changed after round end.
Jump speed for Mantis would greatly benefit from being reverted to Vanilla, floaty jump for Crane is not as bad, but Mantis jump certainly did not benefit from this change which was touted as a “buff” by the Capcom team. 3 frames quicker please.
Mantis crouching hard kick is the weakest sweep in the game, but I am hard pressed to tell why it should be. It isn’t particularly fast or far-reaching, and there really isn’t an amazing way to combo into it. I feel this should be buffed.
Crane crouching heavy kick could use an improved hitbox as well, it trades far too often to be a reliable AA.
Crane U1 isn’t all that great, would benefit from a buff. Crane super seems so much better, I feel that the ultra is lacking.
cough ©2hp took big damage on counterhit in alpha - its not a bug cough
EX Oga is projectile and throw invulnerable to the wall. It can be used to save your life from a hard knockdown > chip fireball setup - I’m sure we’ve all been there. It’s not COMPLETELY useless. Sure this can be baited and punished but if its a matter of life and death it may well be your only option as its harder to punish than ex roll in the same situation (they can stick a c.mk out after the fb or something, for example).
Yet I’ve never gotten into this situation where EX roll didn’t work (and work better). Conceivably it would be useful when it’s your only option against the knockown/chip setup from something like a full screen Guile because of his fast fireball recovery, but that’s just ridiculously situational. Can you find a video where SuperSFIV EX Oga saved the day? I’ve never needed it or seen someone else use it. I’m not sure I can think of any other EX move with as little utility as EX Oga. (maybe “completely” useless was an exaggeration though. I’d still contend that it’s mostly useless.)
Plus, if that counterhit damage isn’t a bug then the move itself sure doesn’t do much for the risk. Maybe if it was twice as fast and had a hurtbox half as big.
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Fix the landing frame glitch
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Give LK gekiro full invincibility on the entire startup
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Make mantis U2 do REAL damage or at least a lot of grey damage like at least 550, or make it an anti-air option, make it whatever you want… just give the player a single practical reason to use it, considering its impossibility to be comboed into, slow startup, and very short horizontal range.
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3 frames startup on mantis cLK
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950/950 - health/stun
Picture the scene, you are knocked down with your opponent about 1/2 screen away, they throw a FB at you to hit you meaty, to chip you out, so they have fully recovered the moment you stand up and are cancelling your standup into something projectile invulnerable - if you do EX roll you can be swept out of that shit on reaction (try it its mad easy), so in that case EX Oga or attempting ©2mk on frame 1 (if it is projectile invuln for the entire duration, I forget) is your way out. A whiffed ©2mk at mid-range is also suicide. Ergo, EX Oga being the hardest to punish of all of these things is really your best option. People that know about your options will do this if they have the chance.
Buffed Mantis Ultra 2. As was said by most people, it needs to either do 500ish damage, needs to combo off of something a bit more practical than EX Hands and Super, or the core of it has to be modified somehow. However, I think it’s very silly when people say it is the worst ultra in the* game*. To begin with, the fact he has two ultras at any given time means you can’t just single out the one. It’s his worst ultra of the four, yes, but it comes with the Crane ultra which is far from useless. Together (Even if it’s only getting points from the Crane ultra) they have their value. I too feel it could use a buff, but not as much as some people say. He doesn’t need four very good ultras, does he? Three very good ones and a decent one sounds fine!
I’d like a bit of focus on crane stance, too. I’m not any sort of expert at frame data, but it would be very cool if Gen could FADC off a roll into some type of combo extender. EX Roll and EX Oga perhaps moving slightly faster as well? They’re not entirely without use, but I don’t think it’d hurt to give them a little something extra.
I’m just hoping Gen doesn’t get nerfed much in the update :P.