Cool. If you ever think up a well-reasoned argument to support your case I’d love to hear it. Otherwise, please don’t insult me.
Yes, you can. Switch cancels are more about raw hit/blockstun than recovery. Ryu’s overhead is +4 because the recovery on the move is only 17 frames compared to 21 frames on Sagat’s overhead. Switch cancels ignore this. While it may be easier to switch cancel off of Ryu’s because of the extra hit, that doesn’t make it better.
Some other posters just had a long and trivial discussion in another thread about how fast an overhead has to be in order to be impossible to react to. I’m not going to argue about the human mind because it’s a really hazy area of inquiry but I will say that I see Ryu’s overhead blocked on reaction all the time because it’s the only thing you have to watch out for when Ryu is at a specific range. A 4 frame difference does not make Ryu any better in terms of team synergy.
This is Capcom. They’ll add more startup to King’s command grabs, reduce the damage of them, and lower his health to 950, then turn around and create dark raven.
Personally don’t see any legit “nerfs” here, just a bunch of “Fixes” that should have been this way from the get go.
there are dozens fixes they still need to do.
Juri’s “nerfs” are irrelevant – any Juri player worth a crap won’t do Senpusha on block and won’t wildly use dive kicks without a purpose.
Moves that should get this treatment are other charaters that are completely safe on specials that obviously shouldn’t be safe – they wouldn’t be safe in a legit game that is for sure.
When comboing off of an overhead tag cancel, active frames and hitstun is the only components you have to keep in mind (And ofc the startup of the move your next character is going to use):
Ryu’s overhead has 2(1)2 active frames = 5 frames. If you tag cancel on the first possible active frame, you “earn” 4 frames and also remove all the recovery off the move.
Ryu is +4 after his second hit of the overhead. When you tag cancel from the 1st active frame off of his overhead, the animation keeps going, and the 2nd hit will hit while your second character is already running across the screen.
So you’r second character has 4 frames (canceled on Ryu’s 1st active frame) + 4 frames extra (advantage after second hit of Ryu’s overhead)
Sagat’s overhead has 5 active frames as well, but only 1 hit, so if you cancel into a tag cancel on the first active frame, your second character will have 4 frames to run across the screen and hit the opponent.
Unless I am totally misstaken about something of course. Edit: I forgot about the recovery of the move that is a description of how much hitstun a move grants. When canceling the recovery, the frames saved on activating on early active frame + recovery + advantage on hit is put together. Thank you Darknid!
I haven’t really thought it through, but I’d assume that hitstun is the only factor in single-hit moves. Ryu is +4 on his overhead after recovery so if the recovery of the move is cancelled then that +4 number is irrelevant. If Sagat is +1 on his overhead then his opponent is stunned longer than he takes to recover from the move (21 frame recovery). So if you cancel on the first active frame of Sagat’s overhead, your second character has 27(?) frames to run across the screen and hit the opponent.
Either way, you can switch cancel off of both characters’ overheads. Try it out in training mode.
I’m fine with that, though I do only try only to use him as a knockout punch… impracticality is a fair trade off for how much damage he can add to a simple good read imo. I dont mind him being soley a support character, but thats me…
He’s a really good supplement character. Use someone else to get in, lead into a launcher or tag combo and free damage. That’s kind of how Marduk is on my team, but I feel he has a little bit more to offer in a long term than Hugo.
Considering that the balance patch isn’t till later in the month, I’m sort of guessing there might be a lot more changes they haven’t got around to posting yet. I kind of remember them spacing out all of the balance adjustment notes to AE2012, so, might be the same deal here.
there is nothing wrong with donkey kick. c.hk xx hado cancel should be addressed, IF anything.
also, I can’t understand why raven was left untouched. the changes to rufus and juri sound reasonable enough to just tone them down slightly without making them weak. just not AS abusive. maybe the japanse only look at their feedback (like always…) and the japanese don’t have any good ravens yet.
