I’ve come to the conclusion that the OP makes shitty threads…
qcf-hcb seems more fluid to me for some reason…
He didn’t think before he posted that is about it.
You mean qcf-hcb? The Maiden Masher motion?
I feel the same way, but that’s probably because I’ve been playing Iori for as long as I’ve been playing KOF.
Yeah…that’s the one I meant.
i don’t see how you don’t see it’s a comeback mechanic so i’ll explain in better detail. however, i absolutely agree with your third paragraph. it doesn’t really matter if it is a comeback mechanic or not if it keeps the game interesting and fun.
both players are not rewarded during attack regardless. i can whiff attacks and no one is rewarded and yet i threw out an attack. if i threw out an attack and got meter for taking a risk and the opponent blocked and got meter for blocking at the correct time, that is something where your argument would make sense. both actually got a reward for something. however, comeback mechanics are undeniable when a player is HIT by their opponent and get meter as well. i’m not totally against the idea but when it comes to MVC3 for example, it’s just plain overboard. the same could be said for SF4. it’s been explained a thousand times why many people find that game dull and it has a lot to do with comeback mechanics and just straight up avoiding momentum with it’s other mechanics. KOF13 does not have this problem and yet it features comeback mechanics but they don’t cater the entire game around the loser.
i hope capcom will learn something from KOF13 but they won’t unless the game puts enough of a dent in it’s sales or KOF13 becomes a sleeper hit. after seeing all the new footage for sfxt and seeing that invincible backdashes are still in the game, i’m no longer psyched for it. what you’re seeing looks fun but when the game is finally released and two players are taking advantage of the games mechanics, i’m guessing that it’ll be slower paced and more boring with OS heavy jump ins OS everything else which takes out any real excitement from the game since no one is reading each other or taking huge risks. i hate buffering all kinds of shit just in case my opponent decided blocking and invincible reversals wasn’t good enough of an option and decided to invincible backdash or FA back dash. that’s why the game has almost no momentum once you get the upper hand and to top it off they get ultra which takes a lot of life so you have to be more careful when continuing your mixups.
TLDR i got way off topic.
KOF XIII having a comeback mechanic would mean the loser’s the hand is held throughout the match. The majority of DM’s (even some EX versions) are not damaging enough to really function as a comeback mechanic. The general game mechanics of KOF XIII does not provide the loser with the ability to just simply overwhelm the opponent with one little move. The moves themselves do not get too flashy or cinematic - but the game does just enough to still impress the casual audience.
A lot casual players… (I hate generalizing but…) tend to be a sucker for flashy special effects. The will see all of these combo videos and they may even try the trails mode. Performing those combos are nowhere near as easy as it looks and some them get very impractical during an actual fight.You will end dropping one too many combos. The Neo Max moves themselves come with a high price (3 meters), unless the character is in HD mode (it takes two meters in this mode).
In KOF XIII… If the character uses a certain special attack, they gain a little meter. If the character connects with their attacks they will gain meter quickly overtime. If the character is hit by an attack, they gain a very small amount of meter. That does not really function as a comeback mechanic.
There is no way the player can sit there and keep taking damage without actually fighting, just so that they can use the characters Neo Max and such. Because, by the time that happens the player would have already lost the match and atleast two of their team members would be out of health, because they did little to nothing the entire time, waiting for their chance to use the Neo Max. In the SFIV series and (to a large extent) the MVC3 series, the player CAN get away with that description. The Revenge Gauge is a comeback mechanic. In MVC3, the player can trigger this anytime they want but the effects will differ depending on how many team members you have left. Due to the fact that it works best when two of your teammates are already down and the characters gets a ridiculous boost in overall stats, this may as well be a comeback mechanic in its own right. Otherwise, person who is losing badly is the one who gets the reward and be able to turn a match around completely. Games like KOF XIII and SFIII3S does not do that. The only comeback mechanic in those two games are… the players skill.
Just because it isn’t as shitty as a Ultra or XF doesn’t mean it is not a comeback mechanic. A lot of popular fighters have something to keep the loser “in there”.
Giving meter to the opponent losing life is to aid in comebacks. Meter opens options, they can lead to extra damage through EX moves/DM/EX DMs/Drive cancels/HD combos or they can lead to escapes or making openings through guard cancel rolls or blowbacks.
It might not be much, but it’s something. This is good because this isn’t as crazy as XF or Ultras.
Heh, I remember back in the day there were a bit of players that thought that building any meter while tacking damage was too scrub friendly and broke the game.
Not a lot of people, but they were definitely out there. Heck, maybe they still are.
Well, like I said, you can give it any label you want, but noone has given any convincing arguments why KOF13’s system is bad in any way.
Oh yeah, the old school Capcom games did have strict inputs on Tiger Knee motions and 720s, which were harder to execute than almost any move in KOF 13.
But you’re right, despite the ludicrously long input repeating buffer and input shortcuts, SNK made the game way too hard for your little Smashbro babby hands. Obviously they glaringly omitted the ability to do special moves by tapping the right analog stick in various directions, something every REAL fighting game needs to include.
Thank goodness that Capcom is once again saving the day in SFxT with super easy input mode for people like you who can’t even be assed to do all 3 directions necessary for a fireball.
Kof’s feature is good because it only even exists when you are losing, but when the match is even it disappears. You can not win kof on the advantage given from having less characters, like the features in sf4 and mvc3 because they will have the same access on their last character.
I’m not gonna go through the “you played Smash Bros. so therefore you can’t do special moves” bit. Try and L-cancel consistently with Fox and then come and tell me Smash players are babies.By the way it’s the left analog stick, the right one does Smash Attacks.
Tiger knee motions are only 100% necessary for one character in one game.
SFxT doesn’t MAKE you use any of that crap.
With that over, I actually got to playing KOF13, I worked on execution and all that and even though the shortcut motions are still harder than most of what I’m used to (it’s usually just 2x:qcf: then 
or the other way around) I can do it all 90% of the time. This is great! Means I didn’t blow 60 bucks on a game I don’t really care for. Now if only they could fix the online to get to SF4 levels. Hell, I’ll take MvC3 level just make it playable I don’t know anyone who’d play it with me local.
Sorry for the bump but i don’t see a need for a new thread and this one seems to be the most applicable…
I Hope KOF 13 won’t be bumped off the Evo List since SFxT is the game now.
Not to bash on SFxT I’ve seen the matches and reserve judgement until i actually play it but it seems a lot of fun.
But looking back the other day on some Ranbat Tourneys my love for this game is renewed… and although i just own the Vanilla Version (don’t ask) I couldn’t imagine any FG being more fun at the moment. so is KOF 13 still included in the Evo lineup?
EVO line up is already set
SF4AE2012
UMvC3
SFxT
MK9
KoFXIII
SCV
KoF XIII is like a different set of players entirely anyway.
EVO line up has very very small chance of changing. Remember shirts are being given out to those who register for KoF XIII at EVO.
Hell of a thread you guys got here.
On the comeback mechanic angle, sure you can say ANY super can qualify as comeback mechanic (or Desperation Move as they called it in KOF). The how has already been explained so while I use all three in their own games, I’ll call XIII’s comeback mechanics ones that’ll test my skill more, which is why I’d favor it.
On topic, it was and wasn’t a good time. It wasn’t a good time because of the competition, and being released around UMVC3. It was a good time because a game like that not coming out would’ve been criminal. I’d planned a trip to go to an out-of-state arcade (Galloping Ghosts outside of Chicago) that had XIII since there was a chance it wasn’t coming to consoles middle of last year. A week after it was announced for October, I still made the trip over and played the arcade version all damn day. Don’t regret it.
Some of the faults of SC5, SFxT, and UMVC3 did help, but whoever said this game shined through sheer force of quality pretty much nailed it. It had time before the other big titles came this year to grow on people, and it grew a lot.
Yeah it’s true that Super Turbo’s supers were advertised as the 1994 version of XF. Literally labels on the cabinet telling you to use supers to “make an awesome comeback”.
It’s just in the end at the highest level of play due to the skill barrier around hit confirming into supers and people’s awareness to deal with raw supers…it’s not that big of a deal. In the end you are coming back with your skill way more than you are the super. I wish just getting super meant I was gonna beat top players with Blanka cuz I love Blanka…but it doesn’t. His super sucks any way.
At that point you’re just bringing up super old man Championship Edition crap. LOL.
As for KOF13…I think it released at a great time it’s just with shit coming out all the time there’s no time that you are really safe. I think still having sub par netcode and generally being a game that’s most popular in outside countries will hurt it here the most.
Well if KOF’s netcode was better, I strongly believe it would be the best selling FG right now and have a lot more entries since most people use online as a training method or when they don’t have a big community around them. Maybe if SNK go ahead and start a brand new patch and put lots of effort into it and make it good this time, we will have more people playing it.
A Bit off-topic
I just watched the entire tournament, they’ve been having a number of KOF’s has these guys ever played the NorCal and SoCal KOFers like Reynald, Mr. KOF, Bala etc.?? would be an interesting match since again the winner of that tournament played it simple.
back to topic, this game needs more hype/tutorials/etc.
KOFXIII appeals to an entirely different group of players, the only problem imo is the online because is unreliable and this hurts the people who wants to be competitive in case they don’t have a local scene.
Who cares. KOF is the most solid fighter out right now. Real talk.