How can you stop a crossup walldive (with the claws out not the grab)?! I felt pretty comfortable against Shari until last night he started doing this stuff and I found no way to punish that (apart of meeting him in the air which is quite risky). I can avoid them with a short upkick but there has to be a way to punish that properly.
How early or late were you doing the up kick? You’re probably doing the up kick too early (since you’re avoiding the wall dive). Since you’re dealing with cross up wall dive, the only part of DJ’s up kick hit box you have to work with is the rear uppermost corner. You want to time it as late as possible so that there’s a greater chance of that part overlapping with Claw’s defensive hit box. You pretty much have to capitalize off of the first frame of the up kick since DJ’s offensive hit box will start sailing way from Claw for the duration of the move.
Ah no, I didn’t know about that on GameFAQs… not looked there in years! :razzy:
I will now though and yep I’ll try and co-ordinate it all. I was already incorporating everything from the SRK wiki as well, although that’s all ST and I really want to be as HDR as possible.
(Note I’m not trying to take credit for anything… I’m not good enough to write this stuff, I just got frustrated that there were bits of good info all over the place that I found I wanted collated together just for my own use, and I thought, if I finish it, I really ought to share it, as long as the original authors have no problem with that)
I’ve played Shari once - really looking forward to again, and his walldive mixups & timing is the best I’ve seen in my limited experience. I don’t normally have anything like these problems vs most Claws I can Jackknife them or jumping LP them easily out of wall dives. But Shari always seemed to just get the angle or timing just right & it was a huge challenge. IIRC there was slight but noticeable lag though which further helps Claw - as you have to react. The best bet is to actually get yourself cornered which makes it easier to hit, but if I remember rightly Shari was somehow hitting me even out of corner LK-Jackknives with his walldives. I think the ‘doing it really late’ as advised here is the best bet, but with any amount of lag this just gets harder and harder to do - and Shari mixes it up well with fakes & repeated pressure strings where you have even less time to react.
Yeah, just PM me with some stuff. I need to update that guide quite a bit.
I can explain how the crossup works from Claw’s perspective.
The reason why i tend to hit out of upkick is due to the hitboxes.
When claw does a walldive his hitbox is quite small before he reaches out with the claw.
Once the claw is extended the vulnerable hitbox extends further along the arms but not the end of the arms and the claw making him a much larger target. Which is what allows upkicks to hit even on crossup.
So what claw players do to be able to safely walldive crossup on deejay is to not extend the claw until the very last second when he is already on the other side.
Which leads to this scenario.
- Deejay Blocks and gets Izuna Dropped/Super Izuna Dropped.
- Deejay Upkicks going in the opposite direction and either gets hits by the tip or Drop/Super.
- Claw screws up timing/positioning and gets hit by upkicks.
I am not a deejay player so i have no real response as to what the correct response should be from deejay but it might be helpful for you to know the mechanics behind the situation.
The safest option i can think of is the same as Honda players do and focus on not giving Claw access to the backwall.
Interesting. Honda has to do the same thing, though for different reasons. Still worth trying out a bit more. It might be that Wall Dives are hard for DJ to deal with. It’s not exactly easy for him since I think only short up kick has complete invincibility on start up. That said, are we talking about wake up situations only? I think jump back jab is great at stuffing kick wall dive. Sounds like you’re specifically interested in DJ’s wake up, though.
jump back jab, jump back roundhouse, short upkick, standing strong.
@Shari/WD-problem: It’s not that DJ gets hit! If I time my upkick correctly my invincibility lasts long enough for the claw to pass through. But I think you should be able to counter it since it’s almost impossible to not let him get to the back wall. Maybe I should try to jump back jab. Does it stuff that fast vertical wall dive in every situation?
Unsure if j.:lp: stuffs it but it’s risky since it’s hard to tell if it’s a fake/walldive/Wallclaw.
I think Deejay getting out of it is dependent on the position on the screen and the timing of the dive.
[media=youtube]LTg2SuYp36Y#t=1m37s[/media]
Watching this you can see Deejay getting hit out of upkicks super’d out of upkicks and punished on recovery of upkicks.
A well timed j. strong beats wall dives. I do that a lot against Shari.
Oh sorry I meant the horizontal WD. I can’t see him getting superd out of upkicks since it’s completely invulnerable for over 10 frames but we should just check that out next time we play. I’ll be away for next week though.
@Zenken: Diagonal or straight up j.strong?
YuuVega seems to have the Dee Jay vs. Claw matchup down very well:
ARG (Claw) vs. YuuVega (Dictator)
Match 1
Round 1: Double K.O.
Round 2: Dee Jay
Round 3: Dee Jay
Match 2
Round 1: Dee Jay
Round 2: Claw
Round 3: Dee Jay
Match 3
Round 1: Dee Jay
Round 2: Dee Jay
[media=youtube]U8Or_C4ruGQ[/media]
Generally, I use diagonal j. strong, but I think neutral could work in some situations.
I just realised that it’s exactly the same move^^
Mixing up j.jab j.strong and j.rh really gives Vega problems doing his WD stuff - apart of that cornering yourself is extremely helpful because you can beat every WD with light upkick or st.strong if he goes off your wall.
Of course it’s your personal experience. Everyone’s match up opinions are based on their own personal experience.
Doesn’t mean you’re not wrong though. Claw is a good match for DJ, Ryu is not.
Good match? E Honda is “good” match for Dee Jay. In general, if you’re having trouble in beating Ryu players, then your Dee Jay is not good enough.
The best Dee Jay players in the world have trouble vs. the best Ryu players.
Gotoh (Ryu) vs yaya (Dee Jay)
Round 1: Ryu
Round 2: Ryu
[media=youtube]dpqLO6IWXLw[/media]
ShootingD (Ryu) vs. yaya (Dee Jay)
Round 1: Ryu
Round 2: Ryu
[media=youtube]6uHVRPMXMlc[/media]
Gotoh (Ryu) vs. Muteki (Dee Jay)
Round 1: Dee Jay
Round 2: Ryu
Round 3: Ryu
[media=youtube]P_m4AxrQtDI&feature=channel_page[/media]
OreRyu (Ryu) vs. Seki (Dee Jay)
Round 1: Ryu
Round 2: Ryu
[media=youtube]uKTKFCn1fMA&feature=related[/media]
Kuni (DJ) vs. OreRyu (Ryu)
Round 1: Dee Jay
Round 2: Ryu
Round 3: Ryu
[media=youtube]MZedQgfz8uM&feature=related[/media]
Buzan (DeeJay) vs. PyonKichi (Ryu)
Round 1: Ryu
Round 2: Dee Jay
Round 3: Dee Jay
[media=youtube]oNboV6nTba4&feature=related[/media]
Gotoh (Ryu) vs TZW (Dee Jay)
Round 1: Ryu
Round 2: Ryu
[media=youtube]UH3dw_rPntw&feature=related[/media]
Afrolegends (Boxer) vs. Daigo (Ryu)
Round 1: Ryu
Round 2: Ryu
[media=youtube]O3wdoe2qFqo&feature=related[/media]
Afrolegends (Dee Jay) vs. John Choi (Ryu)
Round 1: Dee Jay
Round 2: Ryu
Round 3: Ryu
[media=youtube]EdipNVpWLkk&feature=related[/media]
Aniken (Ryu) vs. yaya (Dee Jay)
Round 1: Ryu
Round 2: Ryu
[media=youtube]CNhxzR1YnB8[/media]
Seki (Dee Jay) vs. Futachan (Ryu)
Round 1: Ryu
Round 2: Ryu
[media=youtube]c6mGJOQp_PA&feature=channel_page[/media]
Kuni (Dee Jay) vs. Futachan (Ryu)
Round 1: Dee Jay
Round 2: Ryu
Round 3: Dee Jay
[media=youtube]xTklQc1bFx4[/media]
??? (Ryu) vs. Komoda (Dee Jay)
Round 1: Ryu
Round 2: Dee Jay
Round 3: Ryu
YuuVega (Dee Jay) vs. Ojii (Ryu)
Round 1: Dee Jay
Round 2: Ryu
Round 3: Dee Jay
[media=youtube]jIMapBOyxes[/media]
Nyo (Dee Jay) vs. Oreryu (Ryu)
Round 1: Dee Jay
Round 2: Dee Jay
[media=youtube]2kXHXqwzHb0[/media]
Never said it was an easy matchup, but I did say that I personally didn’t think it was his worst. I think now we’re beating a dead horse here. Best Dee Jay players in the world huh? Because they’re from Japan and enter tournaments? Half of those Dee Jays in the videos play sloppy, and you can tell that he’s not their main character.
Nice reference material, there. Thanks for compiling that.