Caps got a few ways to go for assists. What he wants:
[LIST]
[]Safe DHC
[]Way to get in
[]Make :qcb:+:atk: safe
[]mix up with :atk:+:s:
[]Way to deal with bad match ups in air
[]Incoming set up
[]resets
[]Throw extension
[/LIST]
Most assists will not do all this, but it’s what to look for. He doesn’t need extension (except for throws), pin, or low; he just want’s to control space and cover his movement moves. Good shells with cap:
[LIST]
[]RR (log)
[]IM (beam)
[]Doom (beam or missile)
[]Vergil (rapid)
[]Task (h arrow)
[]Sent (charge)
[]Arthur (dagger)
[]Dante (weasel shot)
[]Strange (bolts)
[]Frank West (cart)
[*]Strider (vajra)
[/LIST]
I think absolutely imperative is an assist that covers charging star. It’s Cap’s best move imo, and I don’t see nearly enough Caps abuse it like it could be. It’s an amazing punish and great for pressure. Most of the assists on ifb’s list will provide Cap with that coverage.
It’s very hard to cover :qcb:+:h:, only a few assist actually do it. Vergil is by far the best CS assist there is hands down. Only Dante, Vergil, and task from what I’ve tested covers it, everything else is :qcb:+:m: and you have to worry about throwable gaps between the assist following up.
I think you are giving Charging Star too much credit for what it is capable of. It is a good punisher, it gets you across the screen very quickly and pushes to corner and is projectile invincible. Unless you have 2 bars to spend with the right DHC options (as in characters that can combo after HCS with a lot of damage like Spencer or Vergil), all it does is annoy the opponent a little and gives them a reason to respect it due to its damage and combo potential. People shouldn’t be throwing it out randomly as it is very unsafe and smart opponents will avoid it (like staying above the CS range) and it is a free punish. Sure you can cancel into Hyper Stars and Stripes if they block but that requires meter and it leaves the opponent in the air which isn’t exactly great for Cap.
I’m gonna mess about with Cap/Vergil later this week. It does sound like a very good mix but it also sounds like it is going to be a meter whoring game.
CS into hyper is still like 500k damage, that’s nothing to laugh at for a mid screen poke that can be made safe with assists. The point of the assist though is so you don’t have to burn meter if it’s blocked. If they block :qcb:+:h:+vergil assist, you get + a TON of frames and can just keep getting back in for free. It’s also a bitch for a lot of the cast to jump and punish because vergil creates a tail of projectiles to cover you as you move forward. If you connect, vergil assist hits after and you can combo anywhere on screen. CS is amazing with the right assists and is very abusable.
Vergil does require meter and I keep a smart game of always sitting on 2 bars, but the team has some really amazing blockstrings that can score you free meter. If you’re doing optimized cap combos, you’re gaining positive meter if you only do 1 hyper.
Dec 29th I’ll be on stream for a local event. I’m still learning vergil and I just picked up nova, but I should be able to show off some really solid cap/vergil play to get an idea.
There is one solid reason why rapid slash is not the best assist to cover cs. There is no physical immunity on charging star and anything will punish vergil as he comes out in front of rapid slash. So basically your opponent can throw out a jab and beat both. While a jab beating both of them won’t happen too often, the amount of options to punish cs+rs is pretty large for any character. Much more so with assists backing them up. You mostly have to worry about long reaching physical attacks that stay active a decent bit. It is still a great assist for cap though, as 90% of the people you will fight won’t know this or be prepared to deal with it.
More like 100%, based on my tournament year with them.
Being beaten out is a risk, but very few moves beat out CS clean and typically have a lengthy startup so reacting in time is an issue. However you can cover the CS preemptively and use it in a block string with SS. Your only real concern from there is invincibility. This is a scenario where a long rang follow up is better, but if your opponent does not have a reliable reactionary answer to CS, it’s pretty free to spam. Even then Rapid slash provides many other uses outside of CS cover with Cap, it’s an extremely versatile assist for him.
I did fight my friend who is a very effective Jill using her invincible flash kick into cancel into combo and it was doing just that where it punished both. I was still able to adapt and make use of CS pressure, but it had to be used closer in block strings and punishes. There are admittedly a few characters like this and this is where preference of assist comes into factor. The cap/vergil combo is devastating, but Task and Dante have the benefit of safety at the expense of less reward.
On another note I find the characters with those type of answers, tend to give cap a hard time and this is where I find a way to swap in vergil. Jill has absurd normals and her teleport can get cap punished easily, so I’ll attempt to lock her down with hyper stars, into swords and take the match away from her. ghost rider is another one that gives cap a hard time but loses to vergil with his teleports.
One thing that has greatly bothered me with cap is beating his bad MUs. Typically I can run over a lot of the cast with my pressure strings and set ups, but theres a few characters I feel absolutely helpless against and it has caused me to constantly change my team trying to make Cap work for me. Right now I’m pretty content that I like Cap and Vergil as my offensives pressure and I’m looking for that magical 3rd piece of synergy. The bad MUs:
Zero (fuuuuuuuuuuuuck this muther fucker to hell. I can deal with his ass on my Task teams, but nothing in all of UMvC gets me saltier than this asshole)
Trish
Dante
Task
Firebrand
Spiderman
Doom
I can deal with the average play style of most of these, but when they get into keep away tactics, it’s a nightmare for cap. Their movement and ability to win air to air against cap give him very few options and almost feels like they have to make a mistake. I can’t seem to find a reliable way to start an offense and it feels like all i can do is block till an opening happens. I’ve tried horizontal assists, but they’re in the air most of the time and the only assist I have found to really help is Raccoon…but I think RR is terrible as an anchor and without a proper assist (vergil is not that assist).
What are people doing to win these? I’m really worried I’m at Evo I’m just going to get rolled by Zero’s or be forced to abandon Cap for my Task on point teams teams to win the match.
My general approach to those match-ups (barring Zero) is to try and limit those characters options. Though Cap loses to characters in the air, I try not to make it easy for them in the air, and they are not going to have the ground to play on against me. My main (but secondary… lol) team is Cap/Magneto (Estaka)/Doom (Plasma Beam).
Trish’s divekicks can be Stars and Stripes’d on reaction, and Cap’s shields take out her traps.Taskmaster can zone, but you’ll just be taking chip at best and the raw damage of his arrows at worse. Task also beats Cap out with his counters, so I also back my offence with an assist, mainly plasma beam.
Also, those characters can’t adequately cover their assists calls when they’re in the air, sparing meter use (or Zero, level 3 buster ¬_¬ ). So I utilize the medium charging star and plasma beam to cover ground on the opponent and snipe their assist (strategy loses out to Tatsu assist ¬_¬ ).
With Dante, though he has great pressure up front, his slow normal and general poor start up means the only way he’s really opening you up is if you don’t deal with his box dashes and teleports properly, all of which he telegraphs so you can see them coming,
With the other characters, I try and play patient. If I can reach the air before them, I’ll try and snuff out their attacks with a shield slash, and try and get them to play on the ground where Cap is strongest. But I accept that it’s rather difficult to do so, so I try to play stubborn and not modify my play in the hopes they’ll start to play against their own advantage…
As for Zero, I don’t see how Cap wins against him. I tend to just switch to zoning him out with Mag & Doom.
(I haven’t had the time to try out my Dante/Cap/Mag team, but I’m assuming Dante can deal with those characters Cap has trouble dealing with).
Yeah that zero match pisses me off. I feel like I lose to the character and not the player, I’m at the point where I don’t even give them credit for winning because typically Zero stomps my cap, then gets a free incoming. My idea lately was to do cap/vergil/x and find a way to safely get vergil in since vergil beats these match ups, but getting him in with meter to go is tough. Is their any assist that could complete Cap/xxx/vergil or cap/vergil/xxx. My whole concern is simply anything to stop these match ups, and hopefully have a safe DHC if running 2nd. Ideas I got going are:
cap/doom(missile)/vergil
cap/Task(up)/Vergil
cap/vergil/Task(up)
cap/vergil/strider - i cant seem to get strider to land when i need him to, much less confirm off of it, but the theory is there i guess
I always liked the idea of magneto, but Cap/magneto has some synergy issues in my mind. Disruptor is a bitch to confirm off of for cap and the DHCing is pretty bad outside block string utility. another idea i had was to abuse a really powerful punish DHC like Storm, but I feel I throw away too much for that.
Oh and the other character was the Chris G Morrigan.
I’m tellin ya, if Capcom would just run nerfs on 2-3 characters and give a durability buff to SS (personally i think SS should be a mid durability projectile and not bounce back against lows)…I’d be golden. But right now anyone with air options that can fire a projectile and keep doing stuff completely kills his options.
To fix up matchups with assists:
For Zero (and a teleport heavy Dante), a GTFO assist like Haggar could work but you’ll have to play a patient game rather than an aggressive one. Just let him come to you (or SS him until he does) otherwise you’re just going to be on your second character.
For most of the other ones, they have to come down at some point so when they do, a beam assist or a lockdown assist like drones or cold star is ideal so you stay at the neutral advantage (even if it is something like Magneto to just knock them over or to block).
But since I don’t change my assists, what I do is essentially fight fire with fire by zoning them midscreen using shield slash+missiles against the ones that like keepaway. Chip is okay but it is really to annoy them for attempting to zone. Exceptions are Zero and Firebrand due to lightning and dive they have. Really you should be able to get to where you need to be against the others by wave/plink dashing. Work on movement and the matchups aren’t as bad.
I’m using a hitbox and back dashing is a dream on this, but still. SS seems so risky, I feel like they can bait it then move and keep attacking or throw a projectile and then do another action. SS loses to screens full of projectiles and basically hand them a free aerial move as cap falls back. I feel like most of those are winnable with the stuff you said, it’s just tough. Morrigan and Zero right now are my main concerns because I know they’ll be at EVO. I like haggar, but i feel like I have to give up vergil to get a safe assist when haggars on point so he can get in (I like cap/vergil too much…I need my piece of the S-tier pie!)
What’s going through my head right now is maybe using assists holds at the loading screen and putting cap 2nd during these bad match ups. I used this tactic with my doom/cap/task team and I would always hold :a1: for my default team (cap on point), but hold :a2: to get task on point with cap’s CS assist as a GTFO. Works great on zero.
I’m thinking Vergil/Cap/Task might be a good idea. :a1: gets me Cap/Vergil/Task, :a2: Task/Cap/Vergil
not sure what assists for cap and task though. SS makes mix ups, but CS is amazing GTFO and safe pressure. L arrow is universally good for offense, but U arrow provides space control but for less offensive reward.
Any thoughts on this strategy? I also know vergil on point beats these match ups, but what would a good Vergil/cap(ss)/x be besides Task?
(sorry this is quite long). You’re spot on about Zero. I respect Zero users, but the character is really unfair. There have been games as Cap where I’ve literally been chipped to death by Zero as Cap can’t compete with him.
I mainly use Magneto for Cartwheel/Disruptor mix-up. I was able to use Disruptor to convert off a throw with Cap, but I have practiced it much lately mainly due to laziness.
Back to your question, I genuinely feel that the best solution to your team issues would be running Doom with Plasma Beam second. The team would have a lot of versatility too. Even if you wanted to start Doom as anchor, beam assists are great for Vergil’s teleport shenanigans. And you’d be able to take care of MorriDoom in the process.
As both Cap and Doom have 1 mil health, it would take quite a bit to kill them, and it would also give you meter in the process. You also have the Raw tag combos off of H. Shield Slash into Doom, and TAC infinites would give your Vergil meter. At best, I feel Hidden Missiles gives Cap a TOD and a response to airborne opponents. But Cap can’t adequately cover hidden missile calls, nor does hidden missiles give Cap the immediate protection he may need. The only way he can make hidden missiles safe is with hyper Stars and Stripes, and that’s using a meter.
And Morrigan won’t be able to call hidden missiles as frequently as she likes as Plasma Beam would just hit her Doom out of hidden missiles. And she can’t approach a Cap with space and Plasma Beam cover charging stars.
Your only other viable options with Cap on point would are to have Iron Man and Unibeam. But even that isn’t as durable as Plasma Beam. Though Iron Man gives Cap a better DHC, I can’t tell you how to make Iron Man viable. The other choice is to use Cap/Vergil/Strider. Vajra would help control the air and give’s Cap a mix-up as well as combo extensions off throws and OTG SS’, but this team will not help Cap against heavy zoning. And it would seem the general strategy would be that if Cap dies, the opponent would have to deal with Vergil/Strider; though a good shell, this isn’t foolproof.
But I swear everyone should just do the Nova DHC glitch in a major to force a patch to the game.
I can believe that. Unless its haggar most things end up trading with cs while vergil shoots right through. The only real concern is opponents that tend to throw out random attacks, as there aren’t a lot of options to punish it on reaction. Either way its still a great assist for cap as it has many more uses than just covering cs.
Couldn’t agree more, the only issue I have is doom over vagil. Unless doom wants to sit in the top corner of the screen and not fight cap throwing projectiles, I feel cap has the advantage. But any character that wants to sit at the top can’t really be punished by cap sadly. Footdives are one of the few things you can bait and punish with ss and doom’s only solid answer to cs/hcs pressure is his lvl3. Vagil on the other hand shits all over cap, especially with swords up. Overall I’d say vagil/zero are probably the toughest MU’s for cap in the game…just like they are for most of the cast.
My biggest issue with fighting zero is lightning not being a projectile, as a smart zero will have that all over the screen with a buster to back him up. Not being able to cs hurts cap’s game a lot. Admittedly I have only played against a couple of zero mains, but both are ridiculously good.
Against firebrands and spidermen I find that they are two of the few characters you can actually use ss against. As more often than not they end up committed to a course of action that takes them into the return path of the shield. Granted that is not the best of strategies, but chances are you are better with cap than they are with fb/spider. And with a little over a million health you will probably survive a combo from either of them whereas they will not survive any of yours.
Never really had too much of an issue with task or trish myself. Unless trish just wants to sit at the top running the whole time, but they always seem to want to divekick into your stars and stripes like yawdan said. While tasks attacks have better hitboxes than caps, he is faster and has more air mobility due to double jump. So I find you can bait him into a situation where you have the advantage.
Dainty has given me problems since vanilla, screw that guy. I think that may be more of an issue with me than a problem with cap though, any advice on the matchup would be appreciated.
Be wary of using Charging Star->Hyper Charging star; he can be thrown out of it.
As for Dante, I’d say abuse all the tools you have at your disposal. From your posts I gather you use an assist that covers CS? Abuse that. Also, I’m starting to see that Dante’s general play revolves around spamming his projectiles, teleporting, sometimes with assists covering it, doing his air s into the hammer, and box-dash h into crouching L. As such I’d say don’t fall for it. You can Stars and stripes all air attacks (except for Zero and Viewtiful Joe’s pizza cutter- air h), block high against his air dash attacks, and throw him out of his teleports. If he calls an assist and teleports, block the other way as it’s a cross up. THe only other thing you have to be worried about is his reverb shock, as it can surprise you. But other than that try not to become overwhelmed by his movement and screen filling.
And also try to use a good team in general against any character.
Oh I am quite aware of that, happened too often in vanilla to forget, it was more for the situation against doom throwing grounded/low air projectiles against cap. I really wouldn’t recommend throwing out any charging stars not covered by assist, as it commits cap to certain choices that can allow him to be punished.
Thanks for the advice! I think it might be the box-dash crossup with h/m and the general movement/screen filling that’s ripping me apart; the only ones I play with any regularity use strider assist, so that adds to the screen filling nightmare. I really wish he couldn’t tech after teleport like everyone else. Its annoying to have a great read result in nothing, I wonder if you could just s&s the teleport if nothing else? I have no idea which wins out: hammer or s&s. I should probably just hit up training mode and put the teleport/assist call crossup on repeat til I get it.
I usually run cap/task with either wesker or vergil as anchor. So the team should be decent enough for most matchups.
I think CS>Hyper CS is a true blockstring, if you get thrown it’s because you did it late in CS which will leave a gap.
Imma try my dynamic team order method. I had a lot of success with Task/Cap/doom as a counter before to these match ups. Imma try:
Vergil(rapid)/Cap/Task(up)
so the 2 teams it makes based on the assist i hold are:
Cap/Vergil/Task - primary
Task/Cap/Vergil - anti Zero/runaway
Not sure if i want Cap SS or CS. SS gives me amazing set ups…CS has some serious GTFO properties as a more defensive assist and good extensions. Seems Task uses CS better and Vergil uses SS better. I got my local in 2 days…so I’ll know then.
Cap’s Star’s and Stripes beats Hammer now due to the later moves nerfs. With Dante and Strider you’re still really only blocking Dante, it’s just that with the hard knockdown Vajra causes you’re better off blocking on the ground rather than chicken blocking or trying to jump away. I know what you mean about him teching though. However he can’t tech until he’s fully recovered so try throwing him as soon as you can.
Yeah after testing i decided to run:
Cap(SS)/Doom(missile)/Vergil(rapid)
if I get a bad cap MU I’ll lead with doom by holding :a1: on load and play a lame out game and build meter. 1st loss my B team will be Task(h arrow)/Doom(missile)/Vergil(rapid). Task tends to be a great go to for bad Cap MU’s and really if im not running Cap point on a team at the select screen, I shouldn’t be running Cap.
Missiles gives cap probably his best chance and actually has some pretty dirty set ups. I think that’s as far as i can take it with a well rounded Cap team.