Speaking in terms of offline play, it is simply impossible to build up a perfect defense against all possible techniques involving frame traps and tick throws. This is why understanding, or at least having some feel for, the habits and psychology of your opponent is important when they have momentum.
option 1: It’s probably more like 4-10. Crouch teching on the frame a throw becomes active probably results in a fail.
option 2: Not sure what you mean by only frames 8 and 9. Only thing that tends to matter for quick normals like c.lk is if they are vulnerable on the first active frame.
Active frames tend to not matter as much as startup for the frame trap game. But it can play a part against specials that run out of invincibility before their first active frame, sure. I’d encourage training room tests to find out what actually works, especially in this situation.
Delaying a frame trap to reliably catch late techers can be harder than it sounds. But yes, it’s a valid tactic.
This game isn’t just about the frames of course. You also have range games and feints and all.
hmmm… dude just started a frame trap / blockstring thread. How we gonna keep that shit organised? I mean I would just reserve a shit load of posts but Im starting to feel like a bit od a hog on the Ryu section lol
… anyone ever looked through the blogs? Why are there so many random freaks on here… o_0
I meant if opponent want to block both options tich throw and the c.lk frame trap, he is reduce
to doing is crouch teck on frames 8 or 9. So what was a 7 frames window to tech in reality
is just a 2 frames window ( or 3 if he can tech from frame 4 to 10)
If he tech before frame 8,9,10 I assume he get hit on his start-up
If we use c.hp like I mentionned , it seem become a 50-50 proposition, he cant tech
and block both options he has to choose ( of course not taking reversal and other into account)
Well unless someone can react to the throw animation
Pieton : what you are forgetting, I believe, with the option 1 /2 thing is that yes, the C.LK is active from frame 4 -7, but they dont have to actively block that entire time. They could theoretically block on frame 4 then instantly hit tech. If you C.LKd they will be blocking anyway, if not they will tech. I believe what Theli meant with regards to “active frames are not as important as the start-up frames” is that it doesnt matter at all if they are blocking on frame 5,6,7… either they blocked on frame 4 (first active frame) or they got hit.
I would not often suggest using C.FP personally, it seems very risky because of negative frames on block, you might as well just use the frame trap provided by C.MP, which also allows you to maintain + frames and hence momentum. As soon as you hit C.FP in your blockstring you are restricting yourself. You basically HAVE to hit hado after it or youll be punished (C.FP is -18 on block!) and if you go to hado youve lost all momentum. Much better to put a slight gap in your string with C.MP, knowing you can continue your blockstring and throw mixups after.
Using C.FP does not restrict the opponents ability to tech at all. Theyre still just guessing at the start-up of your move. If theyre good theyll block and tech on frame 7 after they have returned to neutral. The ONLY way you can beat this is by using a move that has its first active frame on frames 7,8 and 9.
I agree C.hp woulnt be a good frame trap since I woud have to cancel it in fireball ( or in
srk if am a confirm GOD) , it was just to illustrate my point… witch I think I am wrong again
Its crazy I think I am sure I understand 100% a concept, then 1 minute later (or a response from
Darth later…) I am just plain wrong.
Youre right just need to block the first active frame then tech dosent get counter-hit.
Well it appear harder to break the tech thing mechanic.
Getting back to ground OS on wake up. Is it free of charge to add an OS
sweep if I go for a meaty c.lk xx c.lp + c.hk
I am planning on adding it to all my ground pressure since its no much harder than normal,
just a new habit to form.
Are they good Os from meaty c.mp. Serious I try to practice those mentionned in the
introduction of this tread and it require amazing timing, that it dosent really seem to worth it.
Yes. You are not affected by that chain OS except for making the input a little more awkward. But that can be trained to become second nature.
Chain OS are among the easiest of OS. And you’re right, the other ground OS are more difficult.
Those ground OS are possible with manual execution. It’s just a difficult timing that has to be learned. Which would make it similar to difficult combos except that you get less visual and auditory feedback to help find the right timing.
This is why it’s better to first recognize a specific situation during a match-up where an OS can give you an edge. And then train it only with that situation in mind. If you don’t need a possible OS for a real-world situation that you understand well, then it’s a waste to expend effort training it. Absolutely.
hmmm… just thinking. Regular throw plinking is pointless right? Because either you a) hit the tech too early and therefore do C.LK (so 2nd throw input is useless) or you b) do it at the right time and tech, or c) too late (again, 2nd input is pointless). However, is it worth plinking throw if you do 1 crouching then standing, by which i mean ; 1+ LK + LP ~ 5 + MP? that would then give you 2 oppurtunities to throw, right? If your crouching throw is too late the standing one might save you…
Crouch tech plinking is pointless. Stand throw plinking can help if you want to do it as soon as possible after you have recovered from something. (Knockdown, hit/block stun, move recovery, whatever…)
Besides probably being very difficult, a crouch tech input followed one frame later by a stand throw input wouldn’t give you much advantage. You’re just plinking an OS’d c.lk into a stand throw. You’re delaying when you start the throw by one frame without gaining any range. In that case, why not just throw?
A crouch tech while defending against a block string is a gamble that they’re not going to do something other than another early attack, to put you into block stun before your input, or attempt a non-command throw. Sometimes the normal that comes out can help defend versus other tactics, as in c.lp+lk+mp against some rufus dive kicks. But it’s not going to give you any real advantage outside of this and letting you keep holding down-back.
a) if you have missed the crouching tech window your OS tech wont result in a C.LK, itll result in nothing, youll just get thrown. (im talking specifically about late teching here)
b) youre not delaying the throw. You still hit the crouch tech at the exact same time you would anyway.
c) There is a chance that you will have missed the 7 frame crouching tech window and not the standing one. You get 2 additional frames just by changing your input to 1+LK+LP ~ 5 +MP. And yeah, the execution might be difficult, but hell, even if you mess it up and dont get the plink there is 0 risk involved.
I just cant see the point in not plinking into standing throw… it gives you 2 extra frames of tech window for absolutey no cost except a possibly difficult execution. Im not saying this is a great theory, or a way to have great teching and yes, it is a minor advantage, but it is an advantage nontheless and theres 0 risk involved.
The window for stand throw/teching is from frames 1-10 from when they entered the throw input against you.
The window for crouch teching is from frames 4-10 from when they entered the throw input against you.
The 3 frames lost for crouch teching is at the beginning. And they’re only lost because you would have entered the input before the throw has connected, resulting in a thrown normal that prevents any follow-up tech from succeeding. (The 3rd frame is a bit iffy. I guess if you do the crouch tech on the frame that their throw becomes active, it still counts as an attempted normal and not a tech.)
ooooooh yah thats totally true. LOOOOOL i was being a spazz! thanks for unscrambling my confused ickle mind
Theli : can you do me a favour please? When you get a chance can you look at the footsies guide? I dunno how to make the data more accessible and therefore get more chat going on the thread. All work n no thread love makes DP a dull boy
^ yup, you can OS a DP inbetween the cancel and link windows. Check the first page of this thread for more info on this.
VS Bison on ground. Well… you can probably (not tested it) OS a forward dash to avoid his stomp and then punish it when he comes back down, but the only thing that will beat both stomp and crusher is gonna be an SRK.
I try Os different strengh Srk and its just whiff vs Head Stomp or Ex Head Stomp
I think Bison can do the regular Head Stomp vs meaty c.lk but not meaty c.lp ( is this possible…)
When I Os a foward dash does it mean that If Bison dosent move my second attack will be
a standing jab.
Ummm… if you OS a forward dash… well… basically you choose the next move. So you hit, for example : C.LP > DASH > NEXT MOVE (by LINK timing). If the C.LP hits you do your next move else you dash. The next move can be whatever you want it to be.
Basically just hit the dash when youd normally hit your next chained C.LP, then hit another move on the link timing from C.LP. Hope that makes sense.
I have found a solid way to improve my execution out of an os Tatsu or Srk from a safe jump set up.
When I do my jump in I hold my stick downfoward, hit punch a small flick up and punch.
( basically using the shortcut)
I found I got a better sense of timing, its quicker, negative edge SrK dosent come out since it so
fast + I never miss my confirm with my lights after.
I can also even hit confirm on my HP with a SRK if I desire by delaying punch a fraction.
For me its seems like Holy Graal compare to having my stick doing the full SRK motion. Having a stable
stick positon seem to help since lot of stuff can go wrong with a small mistake.
When I go for a regular safe jump I always have my stick down back or for OS Sweep
For me having a confortable stick positon seem to help.
Give it a try
Edit
Actually I have repractice the regular method with hitting the full motion
Srk and I find it even better than what I am proposing above.
2 important concept for me that make it easy
1: keep the stick in downfoward after J.hp , os srk , c.lp
2: see all those OS as target combo, its about same timing
