Ryu’s j.mp is not like other character’s jump mp. You only need to press mp once for it to hit twice.
That’s not to say that I’m claiming it’s practical. It won’t be proved practical until someone wins a match because of it.
Here is what happens in my limited understanding of OS cr.MK.
Because ryu’s green outline hitbox on his cr.MK follows the top of his leg and hit red is below:
LP HB whiffs because your leg is not extended far enough. This will be consistent.
MP HB anything can happen depending on spacing.
HP HB ryu hits the head butt because it is still in start up.
well that would explain it. :).
i must say darth you are right - for once =].
i doubt i will ever use this but, for academics it will work.
it’s funny but i went through a ton of balrog stuff a while back and i was trying this out but could not get it to work.
I have test this J.mp thing and it defeanetly beat EX dash punsh or EX dash upper if they do a reversal on the first available frame.
But if Rog delay his reversal a little bit he beat J.mp, Its pretty natural to delay a reversal if you look at character in the air.
Seem pretty useless since opponent will probably ‘auto correct’ himself naturally.
Now I still dont understand the advantage of c.mk OS vs a pure safe jump. Its better vs regular headbutt to simply block it and punish then try to break it with c.mk and I dont see a difference vs EX dash punch or EX dash upper. Ryu simply go into
gard in both case. Can somebody enlighten me on something simple I am probably missing…
Pieton - this thread is not for practicality :(. As darth said everyone already knows the general OS and “shiz”.
Proper against rog is safejump and punish HB for 230 or 270. block against ex dash. remember sometimes rog will dash the wrong way into the corner.
I just tried it with just a safe jump but no o.s. Assuming I got the timing right, it does beat ex upper but its not safe against ex dash?
edit: the ex upper can be armored canceled to beat the MP. Ex dash straight beats it by itself.
Same thing happen to me too it was beating ex upper but not ex dash at first. I try recording it again with J.mp hitting perhaps just
one frame before and then j.mp did beat both of Rog options cleanly. The timing appear to be extremely strick.
I dont know I used a program pad to make sure Ryu hits the mp (2 hits) asap. If i made him wait just one more frame then I could hit him before he even landed with both ex’s. But that was my extent of testing. Maybe things would be different with more delay.
FYI: Ryu needs to delay his jump by 3-4 frames to connect 2 hits from his MP.
^ EX Dash straight does NOT beat it. I tested it extensively VS all dashes. I dunno why you are getting different restults. It must be to do with the timing of 1) your initial jump and 2) when you hit MP.
Also BG / Pieton : The reason C.MK is the right OS is because it forces HB to whiff whilst still allowing you to block EX Dash. If you do a naked jump-in you have to visually check if the Rog is headbutting .If you just go straight on and enter your blockstring you could get hit by headbutt (you still cannot get hit by EX Dash though). So what youre doing is basically making sure that you cant hit your first blockstring move only to eat headbutt.
note : BG : the C.MK allows you to do everything you listed above as being the right jump-in VS Rog. It simply makes it easier You can still punish the headbutt with anything you want, and you will still block the EX Dash. The C.MK just makes it automatic.
However; if I can make this J.MP thing reliable im using it all the time. J.MP OS C.FK is just disgustingly good.
Well I tested it again with adjusted variables but its still the same result. Ryu has to delay the jump if he wants 2 hits off of MP. If the 1st hit of mp is done meaty it beats ex upper but ex straight still beats it clean and he gets beaten while grounded.
If you wait just one more frame Ryu will trade with the second hit of the ex upper and get knocked outta the air and of course still loses to ex straight. I have no idea how you are managing break it.
If you can record yourself doing it that would be great.
Correction to my previous post: you can armor cancel into an ex upper from an ex low smash or an ex straight and it will beat the second hit.
Edit: I think you are accidently confusing an ex Overhead with an ex Straight. Thats the only thing I can think of.
So greater than 2 frame jump delay is 100% necessary for it to work as reported? k. That’s odd though. You’d think just connecting the 2 hits with the right timing would be enough.
TB: With that programmable pad… Did you manage to connect 2 hits from j.mp on a neutral waking balrog without delaying the jump after c.hk? I’m just curious about the technicality. Is it really just one frame in the air before landing, or two?
It’s probably one. I’d just like some extra proof on it.
If you dont delay the jump you can only connect 1 hit and I believe its the second hit and its at the tail end of the active frames. So in order to connect 2 hits you must delay your jump
(so that your jump doesnt end too early) and also you must ensure you are pressing mp early to ensure you get the 2 hits as opposed to “deep” and get one hit.
Im 99.999% positive that you guys are executing an ex overhead on wake up and think y’all are doing a dash straight.
I dont know about your second question. A delayed jump of 51 frames an ex straight will hit Ryu on the ground. A delayed jump of 52 frames and he hits Ryu in the air. The 51 frames starts counting as soon as cr Roundhouse is pressed. I usually make every input a 2 frame input to ensure it is not dropped by the program pad. So I guess most things will be off by 1 frame or less.
edit: A non delayed jump would be done 47 frames after pressing sweep
edit 2: to clarify some more this is what the commands look like:
1: down+RH 2 frames
2: pause 51 frames (minimum delay for 2 hits)
3:up fw 2 frames
4:pause 28 frames
5:MP 2 frames
6: I manually hold block to make sure the recording blocks long enough
Sometimes the pad will skip an input or perform it to early if only 1 frames is used. It will still come out right eventually if you keep running it but I just use two frame inputs I dont really care to be too specific.
edit 3: a delayed jump of 50 frames and you will not get 2 hits of the MP. Since you wont get 2 hits then there is no reason to delay at all as that is the sole reason to delay your jump
im testing it again…
1st off. It absolutely definately can beat EX Dash Straight. Its not easy. It took me like 10 tries to get the timing perfect for it, but eventually it definately worked. Tango I just read your post. Honestly, I guarantee you it can beat EX Dash Straight. On the other hand, it is beaten by all armour cancels.
I belive the pause before jump must be just 1 frame. The reason I say that is because I used a playback of me doing the J.MP set-up VS Rog then changed to Gat. I can still block TU so that means its just 1 frame I believe.
oh i cant post vids btw. I only have a shitty webcam where I am right now. I tried to record with it but its just unwatchable.
Sagat has different wake up time than everyone else
^ very god point, kind sir. I totally forgot to take that into consideration.
Changed the test to VS T.Hawk’s EX Tomohawk which is also 5 frames. Could still block.
I know next to nothing about this match-up though lol. Maybe im missing something about T.Hawk now… speaking of, I know which character im using on my Random account next 
If I understand correctly with c.mk OS you dont have to be aware of your timing starting your blockstring.
Withtout OS c.mk you need a very small delay after you safe jump before entering a block string to avoid some reversals.
I am still unsure I find this OS very useful and will add it to by game, I seem to never get hit by Balrog reversal and I use
regular safe jump. Perhaps I delayed my blockstring naturally.
I dont rule out the possibility, but I reallllly would have to see it for myself as I cant do it with or without the program pad. Keep in mind I only used the pad to record Ryu and Im doing Balrogs reversal manually. I only pulled out the pad because I kept beating the MP so I wanted to make sure the recording was accurate. It made no difference. This of course is only speaking of a delayed jump.
Ok tell me if this makes sense. Ryu’s jump fw Mp’s active frames is split up 3*4. That means , that at the very least, there is 1 empty frame in between the active frames. If Ryu does a normal safe jump w/ mp, Balrog wakes up into the last hit of MP(I think).
Lets say that Balrog is waking up in the first frame of the second hit. If Ryu delays his jump by 1 frame then Balrog would wake up into the empty frame, or another way to put it is he wakes up then gets hit 1 frame later.
So if you want to hit him with the 1st half of the MP, you would have to delay at least 2frames. Using the program pad, it suggests that Balrog is waking up into the 2nd frame (or 3rd I dunno) of the second hit, thus you need to delay 4 frames.
If you dont delay at least 4 frames then the 1st hit will whiff and you only connect the 2nd hit. It could be possible that Balrog is waking up into the first hit, but the landing frames are cutting it the rest of the MP short. Even if that was the case you would still at the very least have to delay 2 frames to get the second hit.
The program pad suggests that if you want a 2-hit MP, you must delay at least 4 frames. That is the earliest that you can get 2 hits on a waking Balrog. Thats too much and Ryu gets hit by the ex straight before he can block.
If you delay just 1 more frame, Ryu gets hit before he even lands and starts floating to the ground.
There are no empty frames between the two hits. That’s rare, but another move that shares that property is zangief’s EX green hand.
You should only need 2 frames in the air. If that’s incorrect, then the frame data is wrong.
I don’t see why you’d have to delay by that many frames. Are you sure that you cannot alter when you start the mp in order to do it with fewer frames? I saw that this was possible with my own two eyes. I’d be very disappointed if it turned out that I didn’t properly reversal balrog’s dashes during testing.
ok, I know that no one is going to believe me, but as far as im concerned, the fact that I have successfully beaten EX Dash Straight several times to me proves that the delay must be no more than 2 frames, which as far as im aware, is what the frame data suggests.
You dont need 4 frames to connect the 2 hits .You just time it so that the first hit of J.MP hits on its last frame, then you can get both hits in 2 frames. Theoretically I think that is correct, and I believe my own tests back that up (again, that probably doesnt mean anything to you. Dont really blame you, if youve tried it a few times and couldnt get it to work youre bound to think it cant. i dont really understand why our tests are geetting different results though.)
Tango, you were making sure to hit the J.MP a little early, right? Its totally different to a regular jump-in. You must allow time for J.MP to hit on the last frame of the first attack.
Its working for me J.mp beating both reversal. I dont think I delay it very much after Sweep. It feel like same timing if I was
safe jumping Sagat or Cammy. When its not working its because I am jumping too late.