DP, the same reason you can do meaty attacks is why j.mp COULD work within 2 frames. (boxer being vulnerable at the end of the 3rd active frame, and ryu landing on the 2nd of the 4 active frame followup.) But that would be a one frame timing without any reference point or beat of any kind. It would be extremely difficult to do.
Again, OS dp is not being suggested in conjunction with this anymore. Proving and reiterating an irrelevant point does not add anything to the discussion. Doing it despite being told this is not going to be looked at positively.
Yah I get ya, and yes it works. Properly timed J.MP will beat EX Dash and EX headbutt (the headbutt is blocked, both EX and normal). Timing is pretty tight. The headbutt being blocked is kinda interesting. Preumably you can even OS a C.FK on that to catch backdash too. gonna try that now.
it doesnt. I wasnt 100% certain so I just tested it and C.MK won everytime. Maybe EX headbutt can win with specific spacing or something, but the spacing I used had C.MK consistantly win.
EDIT: yup. If you use J.MP OS C.FK you will beat everything. EX Dash is beaten. Backdash is beaten. Normal and EX HBs are blocked.
2nd EDIT : FP HB is blocked, MP HB is blocked. C.FK catches LP Headbut… this OS feels weird but I gotta like the results of the testing
TBH that confused the hell out of me too. I tested it, tested again, then again and again because I couldn’t understand it. I still dont understand it, lol, but that’s what happened. Ill see if I can record it for you. The quality will be awful though (good enough to see whats going on, but not worthy of any OSCARS im afraid
What Os do you use if not C.MK?! It makes Ryu safe to everything Rog can do.
Me and Theli both said that the results of my tests didnt seem to make sense, but WTF am I supposed to say when i test it and can SEE on the screen that C.FK was beating LP HB and blocking others? I cant explain it, but it happens. Ive tested the shit out of it.
And no one is trying to lay down the facts, we are discussing.
The only possible explanation for these results is that boxer’s wake-up hitbox, ryu j.mp and landing hitbox, and boxer’s headbutt hitbox all work together to push ryu to just the right distance where the early horizontal reach of the lp headbutt reaches ryu over 12+ frames after it starts, with the other headbutts having enough horizontal reach to hit around the start of their active frames.
This is going to take a lot of testing to prove 1. if it’s true and 2. if it’s reliable at multiple ranges. I don’t expect it to be proven true, or at least not reliable.
^ trying to think of a way to test that. I guess I can try jumping in from various ranges and seeing whart results I get. I thnk youre right, it must be something to do with the hitboxes… imma go have another look at it.
Does Rog headbutt normally cause Ryu to cross-up?! Only now, when I jump in witth J.MP, if they stand still I hit the front and if they headbutt I cross them up (Balrog goes low on the HB so I know why it happens, but I dont recall that happening with other jump-ins, or am I just forgetting?
that would also be an excellent explanation if its wasnt for the fact that last time I wasnt crossing him up. Urgggh… still teasting, post anything else I find.
EDIT 1 : doing it after a throw makes C.FK come out but it whiffs (on LP HB) whereas Ryu blocks on the other 2 HBs.
EDIT 2 : Back throw makes the C.FK hit LP HBs and block the rest.
Definately spacing dependant. J.MP OS C.FK will always block the Mp, FP and EX HBs, but will either :
FROM CLOSE (most common forward throw result) : Make the LP HB miss with Ryu ending up on ther other side of Rog (cause the headbutt goes low)
FROM MID (most common Back Throw result) : Make the LP HB whiff AND the C.FK whiff
FROM FAR (most comon sweep result) : Whiffs LP HB, C.FK connects.
the cause must be just because the J.MP OS is delayed because of the two hits (you hit the OS later than you normally would). no wait… i still dont get it. How the hell can Ryu be blocking on different frames just cause his opponent does a different move?! I am so very very confused. I had thought I was inputting something weird. But I have tested this so much now i cant possibly be messing up every test. And Ive tested it on all 3 untechable knockdown set-ups. Theli please explain this (… please?)
That is another complication. Post-knockdown jump-ins can take advantage of the 1st standing frame an opponent has after wake-up if they don’t do a reversal or a 1st frame normal. If you allow them some free wake-up frames, that standing frame is lost.
So to properly explore this, you’d have to test both reversal headbutt, and post-wakeup slightly delayed headbutt. But that’s probably thinking too far ahead right now.
Crossing them up isn’t a horrible result either. Just sweep them again and start over. Delayed jump-in mp post-knockdown seems like it could be very useful by just throwing out all OS attempts altogether.
I think i posted the best answers to rog’s wakeups. I included data - as in facts. I told you guys the dmg output to all of your options.
Has anyone ever landed both hit of a jump in MP on rog’s ex dash punch on wakeup?
DarthPaul claims he has - but is he telling the truth? Pretty much every other post has a conflicting answer. I cannot recreate this; and now darthpaul says he can’t even get his j.MP to not cross up…
Why do you guys always want a huge discussion, when i already posted what works - as in - i use it in matches and have tested it. When pieton posted all his questions regarding guile, he got upset that there wasnt enough discussion on it. Well, when things are cut and dry there usually doesnt need to be a big discussion.
If you can’t even get the MP to connect both hits - what is the point of all the follow up possiblilities. Its like day dreaming or something.
DP said he managed to do it. Until I try it for myself, I can’t confirm it for sure. But then, I haven’t written off DP’s posts as BS yet.
He’s posted some questionable things. But I haven’t determined any outright lies for that as to what is physically doable in the training room either.
You don’t know everything BG. I do respect the input of what has worked in matches. That trumps everything else, assuming the other players know what they’re doing. But all that doesn’t help you explore new territory.
BG, its the “new territory” bit that Theli mentions that is the crux of the matter. We already know the generally accepted answers n shiz, we are looking beyond that in the hope of discovering new things and hence improving.
And really. 99% of what is accepted as the best answer was found by someone testing things. They’re not gods. They may have missed points. Thats why we discuss these things.
Oh and btw, why the hell would I talk shit about being able get 2 hits on J.MP VS EX Dash?! What possible benefit would I get from lying?! i mean youre not even saying im wrong youre implying im lying, which implies motive. Ive better shit to do than lie about SF.
i am more than open to new ideas provided they work.
i have learned quite a bit on these forums - especially from a poster named ranix. he had some really good stuff. what ever happened to him?
but, i’d rather discuss strategy - as in how and when the best place to use these option selects - rather than conjectures on option selects, that even if they work, will still not trump the standard safe jump.
i thought the goal of this thread was a guide to using option selects? i think the premise is really good here, because ryu is a character that can take advantage of the OS concept.
why not just create a new thread called “Applications of OSs” then and post your thoughts in there? Theres more than enough space for various outlooks and no one minds a new thread being created if it is informative and applicable. Instead of spending your time arguing about things that dont interest you, why not start a conversation with peeps on here with a similar outlook to you? Im sure there will be plenty, and that way both needs can be satisfied.
The idea of delayed jump-in mp post-knockdown was brought up in this thread because the person who posted it thought it could possibly enhance option-selects. Now that seems to not be the case, but some of us still see some value in discussing the idea and its potential uses. It’s a little off-topic. But that’s not exactly new in this thread.
The question I have is does the standard safe jump always allow ryu to continue pressure against boxer? Is there no option boxer has that can’t at least stall the post-knockdown momentum? Is there or isn’t there some ex dash that would prevent ryu from just non-OS dping boxer after an absorbed jump-in? I don’t know boxer well enough to answer that. It’s possible that you should just dp him if he tries something like this.
A thread about the proper application of OS is absolutely something we could use. I made a mistake when I made this thread in that I didn’t focus on practical uses. I just tried to explain OS in a way that you can understand why it works and how to do them. But I didn’t even try to list match-up specifics. If you think that’s what you really want to contribute towards, then start the thread.
EX Dash has armour, it will completely kill the momentum of a regular jump-in OS because the jump is considered a hit so the OS doesnt come out.
The whole reason J.MP is so godlike VS Rog is that it allows you to deal with the EX Dash without an OS (cause you cant OS anyway). And with J.MP dealing with EX dashes, your OS inside the J.MP is free to deal exclusively with headbutts and dashes. If you can get this 2 hit J.MP OS C.FK to work consistantly, it will kill every option Rog has (except super)
