judgement is not based on ‘flash’, get your facts straight. i think you dont even know how the judgement system works lol
Of course, since you’re implying that your opponent’s also doing absolutely nothing, which would be stupid if he was in a position where he has less health than you do. So should I lose even if I sucesfully block and evade all of my opponent’s attacks? I don’t remember, you can correct me on this one, but doesn’t the judgement meter slowly resets itself when nothing happens? I might be wrong about how the whole thing works, doesn’t matter, my point still stands, read below.
Gee, how is that better? Seriously, we even have something that, while doesn’t toitally discourage the player to do these long juggles in a totally stupid way, it does weaken them. It’s called damage scaling, and yes it’s in the game, don’t take me for an idiot. Here again, totally unncessesairy, like this whole conversation since everybody who’s not a scrub knows I’m right.
Adding super meter or air blocking isn’t shitting on conventions. Deciding that the game will be decided on another basis rather than the one you’re fighting for during the whole game (lowering your opponent’s lifebar) is. The game’s all about lowering your opponent’s life, why should this change when the timer runs out?
Hey, I can point out shitty analogies too. What if, in a F1 race, there was to be a timer and it ran out, the winner would be decided by the quantity of fuel he has left rather than who’s 1st at the end of the timer? What does this reward?
He wouldn’t be doing nothing, since if he has the judgement but much lower life than you then YOU SHOULD BE GOING FOR THE KO–thus forcing him to do SOMETHING.
No, and that doesn’t lower judgement
NO
I believe this is like the 3rd time I’ve said this.
Way to prove my point that you have no knowledge of what the Judgement system even entails.
Damage scaling doesn’t really affect infinites. Besides, I didn’t say Judgement DISCOURAGES infinites and juggles since your primary goal should be to win by KO.
Right, and exactly how many serious XI tournaments have you played? Also, how many have you actually placed?
Anybody who knows me knows I have zero ego and that I’m not a top player, but I can honestly say that I’ve played in a ton of serious XI tournaments and even placed at the biggest US KOF XI tourney of all-time so I do think I know at least a* little*bit about the XI system, if nothing else.
Obviously you weren’t around back when the Alpha series first came out to hear what the really hardcore SF2 OGs had to say about that.
I guess Virtua Fighter and Soul Calibur aren’t fighting games then, since you don’t have to have more life or deplete your opponent’s life to win in those games (i.e. RING OUT)
See above, plus my boxing analogy.
If you can’t see why your racecar analogy doesn’t make sense in comparison to my boxing analogy to this, there’s no hope for you.
Thanks for letting me know you’ve been in tourny and doing good, but guess what? I don’t care. We’re talking about the judgement system, nothing else. Oh, and primary goal is not to win by KO, it’s to win by any means neccesairy. Judgement just adds another uneccesairy tangent to the game. VF and SC has that ring out tangent, but it’s much better implemented, and actually adds another dimension to a otherwise flat game (close combat only, no distance fighting unlike SF and the likes, no ring outs or corners means that tere would be no positionning skills required in space except knowing your ranges, etc)
I’m not a big fan of supers, even less air blocking, but they ultimately don’t detract the gamers from the primary goal: reducing bla bla bla…
We’re going nowhere and repeating what we said in our first posts over and over again. Judgement is retarded. You say it’s not. Whatever.
You have zero ego, and I like to piss people off. Marry me.
EDIT
Sorry, didn’t read that one. My analogy was stupid on purpose, but see it that way: change “most fuel in the car” by “fastest lap”. Your boxing analogy is still stupid, and the only reason they have judges in boxing matches is because, yknow, killing is illegal (and matches could be way too long and dangerous). Also boxers don’t have life meters. That’s also why there are judges. They’re there to judge who’s the less knocked out at the end. If a judge says that the guy who gave 5 solid punches wins over the guy who gave 20 jabs, it’s because the guy who received the 5 punches is more knocked out because those hurt more… sounds like how life meters works, no?
i really hope Elisabeth gets better in KoFXII, cuase she is so blegh in XI. I still love using her though.:lovin:
I only said that because you implied I was a scrub who has no idea what he’s talking about. I was just proving that I have a little credibility. You’ve proven you have none.
I doubt anybody plays XI and starts the match thinking “How can I force a time over and win by judgement”? Instead, people start the match by trying to do damage and force a K.O.
That’s what I mean by “your primary goal should be to win by K.O.”. “Primary” as in your FIRST course of action…not meaning you try to force a K.O. if it’ll cost you the match. Obviously if the match is winding down, you have the judgement, and your opponent has a health and meter/stock advantage then your goal may not still be to force a K.O. if you don’t need to.
actually that is the game plan for some mexican guy when he plays against me.
Why would that not be a viable option?
May not be XI, but still,
RUNAWAY STOOOOOOOORM.
When I play A2 over GGPO, I often turtle and very often I play the clock, and I’m not the only one. A turtle plays not to lose. Once I have health advantage, the clock’s all against you. I didn’t invent that one, read Seth’s articles. Not saying that turtling is the next great thing since sliced bread, just saying that judgement kills that aspect of the game, and I think that’s not a good thing.
But seriously, aside from all the name calling (from my part and I take full responsability, I like to stir shit up), I had fun arguing and hope this to be a fun read for everybody else, I’m out.
In the case of a time over, remaining life may not be considered “absolutely fair” because it may not accurately mark who would most likely win given infinite time. Furthermore, some games actually reward a player for taking damage or being at low life, which in turn can increase their potential to win.
It is worth considering that such handicaps as gaining meter for taking damage or gaining DMs/SDMs at low life themselves distort the whole basic measurement of skill by means of KO. After all, they are implemented for the purpose of improving the chance of a turn-around victory.
It may also be worth considering the heat that ring-outs received when implemented in 3D games. People claimed they distorted the game by allowing victories regardless of life levels. Ring-outs still receive heat in some areas, as even the Soul Calibur 4 thread has at least one post that wants to see them reduced in that game.
Lol it’s just like the time before XI released all over again.
Judgement, while having it’s strategic merits (and I love the game regardless of it), has proven itself to be completely idiotic in many situations (READ: my win against kenmastersx at FRX where people had to tell me that I had actually won the fight), and really doesn’t accomplish the job of objectively deciding a winner from time out much better than just using life (IMO it could work really well if implemented as a tie breaker).
No one’s really knocking it out of virtue that it’s different, but rather that some people feel it doesn’t accomplish what it sets out to. On paper and in theory, it sounds fine, but in practice, it’s not always as objective as it should be.
This is incorrect. In truth, the Judgement meter actually moves less as the timer counts down. Judgement encourages establishing an early lead and makes late-match comebacks extremely difficult.
I’ll cosign this. I hope to play Lizzy without choosing her as Leader that often (if at all); can’t wait to see if they added anything to her moves-wise.
Wow I’m gonna stay out of the judgment debate because its never ending…I personally have had few problems with it…
FYCN- I’m contacting UHK today about seeing if he can start on the EVO vids…dont trell me you all are tired of the Mexico vids already? LOL. That WAS quite a bit of footage.
KOF11 at the highest lv your lucky to see a timeover
good players will knock you the fuck out around 40sec! :rock:
if over half your matches end in judgment you need more practice…
He does have a point there…look at the Mexico vids…how many of those end in Time out???
Or by judgment?
Didnt happen ONCE in Vegas…
I think that’s a playstyle difference as opposed to a cause of the system. The only thing I’ll say is that when matches start to wind down, if you have someone who has more life but is losing by Judgement, they’ll become exceptionally aggressive in order to attempt to take the match back, which may result in a KO due to being too hasty.
Thats also true …a playstyle difference there…he makes another valid point.
Yes. Those vids are how i learned to win evo without ever practicing the game. 
I don’t think a judgement strategy is really viable. Yes, I use it, but that doesn’t mean I think it’s a good strategy for any serious player. The idea behind judgement is ok, but I do think it really needs tweaks to be fair. Some characters seem to have a bit too easy of a time getting judgement in their favor.
Also, I think it does move more at the end of rounds, as if it didn’t, things like knocking out chars at the end of round when way behind wouldn’t swing judgement from completely red to even.