Thank you for replying =D
I’ll er, try this.
So I’ve come to the conclusion that EX kazekiri is a bad wake up unless you are going to go into SA1 and chip kill. Its not even safe on HIT unless you are going against the taller characters.
Anyone disagree?
It’s true.
EX Kazekiri is best when canceled into SA.1.
Ibuki’s normal DP has one thing that others do not, it’s first frame is a air-tech state. That means that it can be thrown while she is on the ground, but any normal moves that hit it will put her in the air.
So, it loses to meaties, but on the upside it also prevents some combos from hitting. Ken MP-HP-SA.3, Chun c.MK-SA.2, Akuma c.LK-c.LK-SA.1, etc, the first hit will pop Ibuki up into the air and put her in a flip-state. In the case of Ken and Chun especially, that basically counters both of their meaty-melee options, but loses to meaty throw.
The problem with it is that it’s not good on block/whiff/parry but it at least knocks down on hit and the LK version is relatively fast. The same is basically true for her DP+P Tsuiji Goe and RDP+K Hien.
The biggest problem is that it loses to moves that juggle you anyway, like special moves and launch moves (think Yun close MK launch kick).
The exception is that Hien is actually really good against some characters who can’t consistently punish it, and Tsuiji Goe is quite good against characters with slow movement, provided they don’t actually meaty you out of it.
All things considered from experience, I rather guess wrong when the opponent is attempting a “meaty” rushdown block or parry when I use a Hien or Tsuiji Goe. So I weight them slightly above a normal DP. But it’s not like they are actually any good or anything, a wise opponent is gunna fuck you up for just about anything you do predictably, so don’t be predictable!
Bottom line, Ibuki does not have the stamina to be wasting on reckless offensive options, and reversals are technically offensive momentum-switching skills that are baitable and punishable. Your best options on wakeup are defensive ones, which in this game is block.
On a side note, Raida is actually a fun wakeup tool against excessive parryers or people who mistime meaties. Admittedly I personally do it too much, but good lord does it work fairly often.
Bitches wanna SGGK? Eat Raida.
speaking of which, does ibuki have an sggk and if so what is it?
I’m assuming it’s used with her s.MK but I’m a scub so I don’t use SGGK. I’m not even sure how many US players even really use it.
You can SGGK with Ibuki the same with other characters, but the reason hers sucks is because her karathrow sucks.
The concept of an SGGK is still the same for Ibuki though, you input a parry then immediately input a karathrow right afterwards.
If no attack connects you’ll karathrow
If an attack connects you’ll parry then do the normal move
If the opponent throws you’ll tech the throw
Of course it makes sense that you would want to use MK for this because that move has good range and confirms into her BnBs off a parry. However, you could also just do LK and slide into LP (as in kara the LK with LK+LP) since the added range from a kara-MK is pretty pointless. And you can still chain the LK into MK and then into other things if your reaction/timing is good.
Basically the inputs could be like this:
Down, neutral LK, LK+LP, , , MK
If the parry happens you’ll LK and then chain MK
If no parry happens you’ll throw
And if the opponent throws you’ll tech (unless they cmd throw of course)
Just keep in mind her throw range is pretty bad so you kinda have to do this pretty point blank.
Ibuki on wake-up… yeah, just block. And get used to having the presence of mind to block on reaction. After playing this character for so long and being so afraid of eathing phat damage, i’ve lost the ability to react as well as I used to and do everything in preplanned fashion. And if something doesn’t go right it ruins my whole game.
I’ll eat a throw or two in the corner if it means avoiding a phat super.
Raida is an interesting answer, but I find it more usefull as simply a quick, hard to punish move that doesn’t leave you extremely open as, say, the Kazekiri’s.
Ibuki has a problem with putting herself in a mix-up. EX Kazekiri… her DwnHK, HK target combos followed by super jump in… it’s kind of aggravating landing good offense and getting put into a mixup that provides you with far more risk and your opponent with far more reward on a bad/good guess.
Yeah…for myself you just kinda have to decide when you wanna take the risk. Sometimes after d.HK, HK I just simply dash in after the opponent on the ground instead of jumping in. Ibuki has some good tools from the air like kunais and chains to make it more difficult for the opponent to parry down stuff and punish, but it can happen. I would say overall Ibuki has the momentum in that mixup but it is 3rd Strike and it can be turned around and hurt you. You just have to be confident when you decide to do it and be ready to input parries in the air as you’re coming down incase the opponent tries to go for an AA.
I usually try not to use EX dp as much unless I know I have meter to cancel into super or know I’m fighting a character that has a hard time punishing it. Sometimes you’ll just have to go for the mix up and hope it works in your favor so the less often you use it…the better it’ll work when you do use it basically.
On Yun and Yang you’re better off just going for the LP,MP,HP chain than the d.HK, HK chain since the latter chain will whiff on the last hit against them sometimes for whatever reason.
I used to play Q and his best wake up was block, so I guess I’ll just stick with that with Ibuki.
Also, say a standard throw meets a raida. Raida wins?
If executed at exactly the same time a standard throw will beat a LP Raida (fastest Raida).
If the Raida is executed any time before the throw then it will win.
The other strength Raida’s are slower startup so of course they would need to be done sooner.
People get the impression that Raida wins because many players have a habit of inputting a parry first, then a throw, which leaves you open to be hit by Raida.
Those goofs are too short to get hit by the second kick. Their trip animation balls them up too much so the kick will whiff. It’s extremely hard to land, as the chains starting with jab necause it whiffs over them half the time due to ducking. Horray.
I would actually say the mix ups are not in Ibuki’s favor (the aforementioned ones simply because even if the guess ratio is slightly in ehr favor, the payoff ratio is not. Even when you throw in SA2. After the DwnHK-HK chain, you can option parry, but if you option parry attack, you eat any multi-hit anti-air. If you wait for the anti-air, you need to have EXTREMELY good reaction time in order to maintain good momentum or advantage if there is no anti air. Otherwise you just end up back at square one or thrown.
If you do guess right, you can get some damage in and go for anotehr mix up. If you guess wrong, you can eat a lp shoryu x2 or other delectable desserts that usually lead to about 2 rushdown sessions worth of damage (or more! Hooray!)
As I said before. People say they always just go for it against Ibuki. Go for the parry into cr. HP with Urien… go for the Shoryu with Ken. What’s the worst she can do? There’s usually only one type of approach that will lead to decent damage. The others just giver her a CHANCE to go for a mix up that will lead to more CHANCES for a mix up.
THrows beat Raida outright yes. I use Raida mainly as a meaty attack on wakeup as it beats anything that has no invulnerability. Weak attack into raida can also stop option parries that counter with attacks that come out with a slight enough delay.
How exactly am I supposed to go from the command dash to an instant SA1? I’m having trouble with it happening.
Is it supposed to be performed as :qcf::lk::qcf::uf::lp:? Is drumming all 3 punches required?
When is it best used? Cause I can’t see to many uses for it during an actual match unless its used possibly one time just to throw something out randomly. Is it safe if they block?
The execution is something you have to get use to. I’ve found that buffering the super during the dash doesn’t work as consistently for me as buffering it during the super jump pre-jump. You just have to do it really fast in order to stay close to the ground.
You don’t need to worry about getting thrown during that time though, because SJ pre-jump can’t be thrown.
As for the safety, it’s relatively safe depending on the opponent and where you do it.
Meaning, if they red parry the last knife then you’re probably going to get hurt.
If they block then there’s only a few characters that can actually legitimately punish it. The Jab version (qcfx2+LP) has the shortest recovery time but if you do it too far away then the last few knives will whiff and they can punish. The medium version is still relatively safe but you still need to do it close to the ground in order to minimize the recovery.
Doing it against a cornered opponent is generally a very bad idea. If their back is to the wall then most characters have at least some way to hurt you, though some more than others.
Generally, if you treat it like an anti-throw trick then the risk/reward is pretty good against most characters. Like say doing a crossup j.MK then land, and at that point you would normally go for a throw and the opponent normally techs out if it – good time to TK an SA.1 right there instead of the throw, because odds are they aren’t going to do anything that will hit you out of pre-jump (they are at frame disadvantage why would they mash buttons, and if they do then learn to punish that shit), and once off the ground you’re not going to get punished too hard, and then if they do actually try and tech/throw they are eating knives to the face.
Just apply that concept to all your tick throws and throw traps and you can see how it’s a pretty good trap that abuses people who habitually option tech (EG. it’s great a fucking with people who play by habit). What you want to look for is people teching your throws, and then take mental note of it and next time you’re in that same situation do a TK SA.1 instead of throw.
:u: Thanks! Any tips for getting better at executing the TK SA1? Or is it just a thing that gets easier as you get better using a stick?
that’s the key line right there.
Eh, I think it’s natural that the more familiar you are with your controller the easier it will be.
But like I said, the way you posted above doesn’t work consistently for me, personally. I not sure if it’s even possible to use the dash command as the first input of the super, but I don’t believe that it is.
What I normally do is :qcf::lk: slight pause :qcf::uf:-:qcf::lp:
Or sometimes what I do when I feel my qcf’s are flakey I do :qcf::lk: slight pause :qcf::uf: slight pause :qcf::lp:
The idea with these types is to try and time the first UF at the end of the dash, but also to input the first QCF as quickly as you can. So what I would recommend trying it MK, qcf+LK, wait till you see Ibuki’s hair flip where she’s about to stand, QCF-UF, then another QCF and try to time the LP to where it’s almost as soon as you leave the ground.
I’d reverse that, kinda. I’d do the TK motion last that way you get your jump closest to the ground as possible. It grants me a little more control over the height. In my experience.
That is how I do it close to the ground, to each his own I guess.
How did you do at Evo last year?
Wasn’t there. Let’s stay on topic huh?