I wouldn’t even call it “toe to toe”. Sagat need not even bother trying to trade projectiles with Akuma. He will lose every single time and be forced to close the distance unless the Akuma doesn’t know what he’s doing.
I would say toe to toe because Sagat still has speed on his side with his projectiles. The Akuma player has to carefully place his shots in order to over power the Sagat player and against a good Sagat this becomes harder and harder. It comes down to player skill on both sides.
Gen, Viper, Balrog and Sagat
I’d disagree if both sides play effectively. If they both play well, they reach equilibrium where neither side is eating the other’s fbs. However, at this point, Akuma is at the advantage. Firstly, because of the use of red fbs, he will be forcing Sagat to jump fbs more often than he does, meaning he will build meter faster. On top of which, even if he did have to jump one, he can air tatsu for meter which Sagat cannot do. And finally, if they’re just exchanging fbs ad nauseum, Akuma has plenty of time to sit back, pick up on a pattern in the opponent’s timing, and then punish with ex flip. Sagat has no comparable way to punish Akuma when he figures out his timing.
Sagat is forced to come in, he can’t keep playing the fb game forever without eventually losing.
While I generally agree, I have played some very good Sagat players (including my friend from Japan) and it is in Akuma’s favor, but not by much IMO. Akuma has the tools to beat Sagat, but it is still a troublesome task.
punch, punch, punch, punch, trip
i agree completely. Sagat vs Akuma is always a good match
death by nines has a very evil and coked up sagat (no dissrespect). i thought my akuma was decent unti he gave me a royal asswhoopin! (which he does regularly). if any one one here has an akuma that can beat him let me know cause your elite!
lol thats very original
As Akuma, Sagat is my favourite match up too.
i find sagat is my worst matchup. one mistake sends me back half hp and that just pisses me off cos i do so much work to take off that much and he can do it all in one combo.
ryu is my 2nd hardest matchup because hes essentially a sagat as most his combos also take off a fair bit.
anyone got tips on how to take a sagat?
when i was a mid level player i use to demon flip + kick and it use to trade off … but i have no idea why this happens as it only happened 1/4 of the time.
now in order to avoid the trade offs favouring sagat, i resort to crossover tatsus.
i find blanka very fun as he keeps me on my toes. c.mp as soon as he rolls towards me or ultra. however blankas that don’t roll are also very tricky and also fun. also anyone i can do a pseudoloop on fun 
Sagat and Gief are always fun and keeps you at the edge of your seat. I would be slicing them down with Akuma but then they do one or two moves and then it’s my akuma who’s hanging by a thread.
C.mk>hado>fadc>s.hk>c.lp>tatsu>lp srk>fadc>shaku…
Its a beautiful things and so easy to stick on a sagat cause of his hit box
You can do some more with that combo you listed. Like, loop before the cMK, Hadoken back into a longer loop. I cant remember if it’s 2 or 3 loops, cMK, Hadoken, FADC, 2-3 loops and combo or maybe the numbers are off slightly. Sagat let’s you do all sorts of shit on him. That guy is seriously huge.
anytime I get a chance to fb fadc on sagat I pretty much always do three loop rounds and then trip or lp, lk tatsu, trip.
anything beyond that is a waste of time effort and meter and most of the time damage.
but 430+ damage and a ton of meter gain is SO worth doing hk, s.lp, hk, s.lp, hk, c.mk, FB FADC hk, s.lp, hk, s.lp, hk, s.lp, c.hk … but I wouldn’t do it twice.
learning the best way to loop on balrog feels more useful if you only play online though… cuz balrog is top 4 used characters in the game (#1 is ryu and then its a hodgepodge after that) while I barely see sagats. And when I do they tend to suck and just spam uppercuts.
As for offline ppl love sagat…lol.
but talking about the loop in general… the most important thing is to learn the ranges of when to go for a triple loop, a double loop and a tatsu, or a single loop and a c.mp tatsu, etc etc.
and using c.lp in a HK combo on sagat is a huge waste of damage. sure its easier than doing c.mp but you gain 50 stun and 40 damage just by using c.mp. And it will always hit unlike on smaller hitbox characters where sometimes the tatsu misses. So just learn to ALWAYS use c.mp on larger hitbox characters if you can’t loop.
I’m not a Sagat player, but I’m a Gouken Player and I fought someone that knew the Vortex, and it was a blast playing him. I knew about the Vortex because I read it here but I never experienced until that Akuma player. So it was fun figuring out a way to get out of that “loop”.
Really fun match, besides that any other Akuma who does air fireballs and jump back Hadouken are boring matches. =/
Hi Guys,
To come back on Sagat, and I didn’t want tor start a new topic.
I love practicing with a friend of mine who mains Sagat.
I could always vortex and bait him into coming to me but now he has developed the nasty habit of constantly jumping over my fireballs.
He doesn’t react at all, and just jumps over them, if I come in with anything at all I will eat a st.hk, knee or dp. I always lose my patience when it comes to 30/40 seconds and start demon flipping and st.hk poking but I get punished for that like crazy, then I die.
Any tips on a hardcore turtling Sagat?
ps: In g1 I generally do fine against Sagats, as long as they don’t turtle.
Only thing I can suggest is turtle harder than he is. Sagats going to be hard pressed to win the fireball war, so you can get some chip damage on him, maybe even a lucky hit. If you’re in range and you predict a whiffed fireball, you can get a demon flip kick into BnB and there you’ve got 300 damage on him. Then you can sit at screens length downbacking and throwing fireballs. Alternatively, walk towards him constantly pressing downback so you’ll block if he tries to hit you, safe jump on his wake ups to bait stuff. Make him make mistakes. And if you get a life lead, ain’t no shame in timing that boy out.
But all in all you have to keep cool, be patient, wait it out and punish like a demon.
I ain’t that good with Akuma, but that’s just my opinion on what you should do.
imo,
depending on the sagat player. if the sagat player can spam heavy kara shot/TU like a 5 cents whore.
then sagat wins the fireball war. else its akuma slightly edging out.
at scrub level
sagat >>>> akuma
at medium level
sagat > akuma
at pro (loop,vortex etc)
sagat < akuma
at japan level
sagat > akuma
agreed with the post above.
Some people don’t take the level of play into consideration. Those tier listings we get are usually from ultra pro JP players, where to my view, push each character to their absolute limits, or at least they are trying to.
So take for example,
2 ken flowchart players
All they know how to do is shoryuken, and jump in roundhouse to low roundhouse combos.
Sagat will win.
Even though the players are of “equal” levels.
Take it further up into the levels, and we’ll get intermediate level of play:
Players know the moves of their characters, and some matchup experience
Sagat will win, because of larger HP, more range etc.
Even further up into the ranks:
Players are using tools unique to their characters
Akuma knows how to loop, knows how to vortex 1/2 the time. (not exactly 100% accurate in execution/mixup)
Sagat knows how to kara Tiger Uppercut, kara tiger shot, use range of normals to keep Akuma away etc. (again, not 100%)
Sagat will usually win still, because of those mistakes that Akuma made during the match, it costed him way more life than the opposing Sagat, who has a commanding lead in Hit points.
But, in Pro level JP player league… the game changes somehow:
Akuma loop is flawless, vortex mixups are still a gamble, but they know when to use it/know when it’s worth the risk.
Sagat players are flawless kara-ing their moves, can autocorrect Tiger uppercut any jump in/vortex mixup if he chooses to go with that option etc.
In this case, it seems that a near perfect Akuma, will undoubtedly win over the Sagat, for his lack of execution, and error from the level prior to this has been perfected, or has become much cleaner.
And now we’ve reached JP Grandmaster level…
same as the above, but… the miracle that is Mago is the test subject…
Momochi, and Tokido are the Akuma reprisentatives
Both characters are pushed to their limits in every shape/way/form.
Mago is victorious, because he is simple the better player?
The reasons for this, I cannot explain, if Akuma is indeed greater than Sagat.