I think a better way of putting it is that “Fighting games are too hard for a lot of people in the same way that sanwa fightsticks are too expensive for a lot of people.” I think that just about anyone who can afford a console can scrape together $120-$150 for a quality stick, but we don’t lambast them for being destitute when they say that a TE is too expensive for them. We implicitly assume that what they mean is “I want a TE but it’s not worth $150 to me.” It’s the same thing with casuals. When they say fighting games are too hard we can just assume that what they really mean is “I want to play fighting games but I don’t think it’s worth spending the required amount of time and effort to learn it.”
For people like us, who have most likely been playing fighting games since we were in the single digits, fighting games may seem “easy”, especially newer ones.
However, for a completely new player that wants to get into the genre, it’s not easy at all, even the newer ones.
I tried to teach a friend of mine how to play UMVC3. She had trouble with super jumping and dashing.
Things like that may be as easy to us as breathing air, but to her, it was difficult.
Sometimes we have to remember that not everybody is a fighting game fanatic like you and I are.
In a sense, fighting games really aren’t “dumbed down” as people with bruised egos like to claim they are.
Fair enough.
Yeah for fighting games I truly wouldn’t know if the games have really been dumbed down or not because the first fighter that I have taken a larger interest in is MVC3/UMvC3 and I think at this point I can say that I am not playing just casually. Your post kind of reminds me of my experience with TLoZ because I thought the newer Zelda games were “dumbed down” but then I played Ocarina of Time on the Wii and the Water Temple had the same difficulty that I remember the average temple in Wind Waker had. Wind Waker was my first Zelda game and I was much younger when I played it as compared to when I played OOT
But its a two button dash, all you have to do is hit two buttons.
The first game I took a larger interest in was MVC2. To me, aside from aesthetic differences, the only difference is that UMVC3 is a lot more balanced. Both games are relatively easy to pick up, are hard to master, and both are equally brutal and unforgiving against a better player. It’s just that UMVC3 players aren’t playing 10+ years of catch-up like a new MVC2 player would, and thus, people who lost to people that they thought they were better than proceed to call the game dumbed down.
I wanted to teach her the manual way first. Kind of like learning how to wash dishes by hand before moving on to the dishwasher.
Dumbed down is one of the things I haven’t heard in a while, thank God.
FG’s were at their height of relevance and popularity during a period when they were much much simpler than they are now.
inb4 “What the fucking fuck you think they’re anywhere similar?” shitstorm.
I feel it in the air…
Seriously.
“There’s a hard wind a’blowin’ boys, I’ll see ye all in Davy Jones’ Locker!”
We have seen 13-8 year old or even blind/handicapped able to play fighting games, I don’t believe it impossible for a casual player to learn. It’s more like most people don’t have time or want to…
all my casual friends all seem to get and understand the EX moves supers and the ultras, shit they dont get why are in the games,parrys, ismz, hd cancels,kara whatever throws ,unblockables, they dont seem to mind the focus attacks, just dont understand what the fuck just happen when they get facd ultra and go wtf is this shit,basically they want a game like super turbo or kof with out the shinanigins and for 3d games they dont digg team games or tagg and or why tekken does not play like tekken anymore an revolves on juggles…basically if i was a game dev this request should not be hard to make this day an age.
Basically from a bizz stand point if i was board director at capcom, a super turbo like game with 2.5 3d no cadc or fadc or kara.no fucking parrys
…supers ex moves and maybee just maybee ultras as they have grown on me would make it into next gens sf5 and strekken rippp off netcode of ggpo
Honestly, I don’t think this is about it being possible for someone to play or not. Of course it’s possible for anyone to learn, it’s a videogame, I mean how hard could it be for a casual player to learn if they put the time in. I personally think that it is more about time and not really that much work. For example, getting competent at UMvC3 wasn’t really hard for me, it just took a little more time than other games that I can enjoy. It took me some tutorial videos and help from this site to get somewhat good at marvel, but when I bought my first COD it was as simple as seeing an enemy, pressing down the right trigger and seeing a nice big bright +10 in the middle of my screen.
Also, people might just like putting more time into other games. For example, I think I’m pretty good at marvel, but I completely suck at SF4. I own the game I just don’t play it. Its not because I think it would be too hard for me, just that I would rather spend my time playing marvel 3
Just my 2 cents
Edit: this in response to ironboy
I’m not trying to start a flame war or anything. But given the nature of this site, the FGC in general, and dare I say, the Internet, I understand your apprehension.
The problem is that for a new player, every loss in a fighting game is on him. No partners to blame for a loss, no team to carry him, unlike the most populars FPS or Mobas here. So he will blame the game, and drop it sooner or later.
Even for the FPS, try to sell some Quake-like fast 1V1 duel game now. It would be even more niche than any fighting game right here. Not everyone is strong enough mentally to endure this.
There needs to be a a better focus on teaching people to teach people how to play in this community so I’ll say this again for a third time, what ukyo_rulz and Black belt jones are both describing what seem to be teaching problems and not learning problems.
Even in that fightstick price comparison you have to realize that the cost of learning fighting games is not fixed like a fightstick, its all dependant on how you learn and are taught. If the person who is teaching you takes three hours to show you how to do a hadouken, then guess what, you probably will think its going to take too long to learn this game, but if in three hours your could know all of your specials, supers, and more importantly, a few strategies (which is highly doable) your calculation of how much learning this game is going to cost you changes dramatically.
Edit
If someone is having consistant trouble doing :d: :u: or :f: :f: then the problem is probably one of 4 things
- They have an actual learning disablility
- They are holding the controller in a way that they shouldn’t, or is is at least inefficient
- They don’t understand the timing of the button hits (most likely reason)
- Equipment failure
In the scenario where you are teaching another person how to play 2,3 and 4 are all the fault of the teacher.
2. - Simply tell them not to hold the controller that way and show them why it is ineffective or inefficient
3. - Demonstrate the timing for them with them looking at your hands so that they are mimicing your timing and not trying to figure out or guess it. (Tapping out the rhytm of button presses also works) - too many people try to verbally explain timing to somone in the same room when they could just demonstrate it.
4. - If there only one controller available there is nothing you can do but, if they are repeately missing something simple you should at least grab the controller for a second and make sure you can do the moves on that controller, so the aren’t needlessly frustrating themself on misses that aren’t their fault.
so, are there any casual gamers that aren’t complete retards?
I had a definition of what a casual gamers were, but from reading this thread, it appears that a casual gamer is simply someone who cannot deal even with the simplest things.
Most people, in actuality, understand that they’re gonna lose some coming in (ref:lose your first 50 games of go). There’s so much more going on in this issue than ‘scrubs are scared of losing!’
you won’t talk to me because I can shit on your entire argument with 1 fact. And that 1 fact is Noah.** If these games are so massively complex and deep, why the fuck can a 7yr old play @ a decent level?**
could it be that fighters this generation ARE NOT massively complex and deep? nothing else that kid does is massively complex and deep. His math HW isn’t massively complex and deep is it? Noah is still just a kid, he doesn’t have the ability to play massively complex and deep games. Now if Noah was some type of super kid genius and he had like college statistics as HW @ 7yrs old, I wouldn’t use him as an example but he’s not. He’s a regular kid from what I know about him.
look @ how concise my point is, its very short. Yours takes pages and pages and pages of strawman arguments to the point where you fucking forget what you are talking about. The reason your posts are like that is because you actually don’t know what you’re talking about.
you say I’m taking shots @ your when I’m merely pointing out your credentials. Which is what every argument in the court of law first establishes. With no credentials behind you, how the fuck can you get anyone to even agree with what you’re saying? they NEVER put the average joe up there to describe DNA evidence. They put someone who actually knows about DNA evidence up there to describe it.
If srk.com was a courthose, you would not be allowed to talk freely like a pro because your credentials would come into the picture. While credentials are just credentials, it gives people a reference point to understand where you’re coming from. While this seems like its an appeal to authority to fallacy, its really not because you’re appealing to common sense. We don’t ask car mechanics for medical heart advice do we because the car mechanic thinks he knows enough about the human heart. Then when you ask him what his credentials are, he tells you credentials don’t matter. Even some logical fallacies are fallacies themselves and don’t support real world conditions.
if you didn’t waltz around here like your shit don’t stink, I wouldn’t really have a problem but god damn, you have like the biggest ego on srk for someone who can’t even play 1 fighter good. Your ego is so fucking big, you told Mike Z\ponder ggpo doesn’t work. You told 2 developers who went to college for 4 years a piece that it doesn’t work. To this day, you remain adamant about your point and still “think” ggpo doesn’t work very well when all fighting game developers are now implementing the technology into their games. moron…
They aren’t too hard, they just aren’t rewarding enough.
they realy are not to most folks and teens, i have enjoyed them since i was a kid, but down the street was 2 ghetto arcades down the street i grew up in so for some reason i have to play some fighting games enough that if anyone says “ya wanna play” i can play enough to get by lol