Are fight boards (aka Hit Boxes) cheating? (Experiments and Guide)

Tech Talk
61

I think we both might be doing some misinterpretation.

The reason I’m still not convinced is because of the existence of this. Unless the cardinal directions on that pad I just linked are mapped both to the DPad and face buttons, that means that the PS3 driver software DOES accept SOCD inputs.

I have reason to doubt that home DDR pads map cardinal directions to both the DPad and face buttons due to the assumption that this would make DDR pads atrocious to use in menus. being that pressing down means pressing X at the same time, automatically. Therefore for home DDR pads to be efficient, the game menus would have to be designed entirely to be used via start, select, and the shoulder buttons. Something I’m not 100% certain of, but still doubt is the case.

We have no excuse not to conduct proper tests on the PS3.

The only real advantages gives are not killing your wrist for Super’s like Balrog’s U1, Super, and Guile’s U2. Just double tap forward and hit your attack(s), as opposed to twisting your wrist frantically.

Also there’s a very slight possibility it could give you maybe one or two frames of advantage when compared to charge partitioning for sonic booms, etc.

62

I wonder if you can hold back and down, do a sonic boom and then do a flash kick right after since you never let go of the buttons.

63

Alright, I think you’re unfortunately wasting your time in regards to getting major event organisers to update the rules, though I’ll nominate this thread for an article anyway if it gets more exposure of the hit box concept.

Good luck, blode.

:tup:

64

The game itself maps the face buttons to directions, not the pad. Menus work because X is still X and not down. It’s just that when you are actually playing a song you can use both X and down to hit down, or if you own the DDR dance pad you can just play normally because the game has SOCD’s hard coded into the game.

By all means, test the PS3 versions too just for definitive information, I’m just letting you know that DDR is not a fighting game and the controls are not the same.

65

Ugh, further try to explain my point, because I think I’m still being misunderstood, or begin marvel 3 xbox tests, since you know we should conduct PS3 tests anyway?

66

Marvel 3 please. JohnGrimm will defend HitBox on his deathbed, and we can settle that later.

67

Just keep testing. All I’m saying is don’t be surprised when PS3 games don’t allow the same shenanigans that the 360 does.

68

I did not say a single thing in defense of the Hit Box. If anything I’m defending the PS3. It’s a fact that crap like HDR walk charging was only possible on the 360 version. DDR is not a fighting game and actually relies on SOCD’s in gameplay, it’s not proof that any other game will allow it.

69

I never assumed that the same shenanigans would be possible, what kind of scientist do you think I am? :smiley:

I’m talking about if all new shenanigans would be possible. Because DDR exists, the possibility for shenanigans (whether or not they match the same results of the Xbox) are indeed a possibility and need to be tested.

I’m still convinced that if test results differ at all, it’s still down to the game’s software, nothing to actually do with the PS3 driver software.

Yo, I’m not accepting ANYTHING as a fact on PS3 until these conditions are met:

  1. We confirm that for some reason, every PS3 controller PCB on the planet cannot output SOCD signals.
  2. We confirm that for some reason, every PS3 (hardware + drivers) on the planet can not accept SOCD input.
  3. If we can find a PS3 controller that can output SOCD signals, along with a PS3 that will accept SOCD signals, then the tests I’ve outlined must be conducted.

The first two are highly unlikely, due to, like I said, the fact that DDR (and home DDR floor mats) exist for the PS3. I still accept that it is a distinct possibility, but it would not be without reason. A reason that could likely be explained by one of the more trained and learned electrical workers here on Tech Talk like Toodles.

If you conduct PS3 tests, please conduct it on at least two games. If you conduct the tests on two games, and the results are exactly the same, consider trying a third, if the results are still the same, then there are two conclusions that could be drawn from your data:

  1. Universally, across the entire PS3 platform, for whatever reason, SOCD inputs are not possible.
  2. Your specific controller+console combination contributes to the “best case” scenario outlined above, your specific controller PCB, or your specific console does not output or accept input (respectively) of SOCD’s.

If the conclusion from the experiments fits into category 2, then I have to classify the data as invalid, since only “worst case” is important for drawing real conclusions about the SOCD situation.

I hate to talk down to you, JohnGrimm, I respect you a lot. Hell, anyone who likes the Hit Box can’t be all bad. However, that’s some serious disrespect of the scientific method you just did. As the primary conductor of this project, I am not allowed to simply accept anything as fact without evidence via experimentation.

Marvel 3 tests have already started, but are a BITCH because you can’t do recording on the training mode dummy. I will be unable to test brainless crossup blocking without someone else to test with online.

70

Yes you can. You have to set it to a button though. Go into button config and set recording options.

71

Or turn on the AI.

72

Is there a charge character in marvel 3?

73

Chun Li has the only charge move, Spinning Bird Kick.

74

Like I’ve already typed, arcana heart 3 and bbcs on ps3 do not accept socd inputs. The controlloer (the ps360) does output socd, as It can do socd on xbox 360 marvel.
I don’t have a ps3 copy of marvel, or else I’d test that.
If anyone does, just go into training mode, turn on input display and press both directions. anyone?

75

Not the only one. Hulk and Felicia, I think, have ones as well.

76

Here’s the point for DDR:

Here’s your standard DDR Dance Pad layout on PS3 that would ship with the game:

Tr Up Ci
Le ** Ri
Sq Dw X

I could be wrong on the exact notation, but this is the general scheme of thing. The center has no button, with eight buttons surrounding it. 4 D-Pad buttons in the cardinal direction, and the 4 face buttons in the intermediate directions. In the DDR button configuration, there is a standard way to play this on controller (maybe to cater to handicapped people who want to play bemani games) by using the face buttons, as it isn’t possible to hit multiple conflicting directions on a D-Pad. This isn’t turned off when a dance pad is connected. So on a dance pad, you could play by either using the cardinal or intermediate directions. No the left button doesn’t also map to Square or vice versa. In order to manipulate the menus, you have to use the arrow buttons. It is just the fact that in game, the button configuration is mapped to both the d-pad and the face buttons. Because I do believe that X can also select songs in the selection screen, so if you were to hit down to try to lower the difficulty level, you would instead confirm a song.

So yes, DDR DOES allow simultaneous conflicting directional inputs, but that’s a must for this game.

77

My mistake then.

78

Wrong, felicia has a cat scratch charge move that’s back to forward.

79

Not interested in this “is it cheating” debate. But I don’t understand the naming confusion.

Hit box is a bad name because hit boxes are an attribute of the game’s internals that determine whether or not you hit an opponent. It is a bad idea to use an already established term for something completely unrelated.

Fight stick is a acceptable marketing term for an arcade stick marketed for fighting arcade games. So fight board should be an acceptable term for this product which are being marketed towards fighting game players.

But since the term stems from “ARCADE STICKS” (controller using a stick for arcade games) then this products should simply be called “ARCADE BOARDS” or “BUTTON BOARDS”.

80

Hit Box is a brand and was named as such BECAUSE it is a term in fighting games. You can call it whatever you want, but the BRAND is Hit Box. Also, when discussing the in-game mechanic, hitbox is one word and usually isn’t capitalized. It is not impossible to distinguish the two.