LOL, you guys really need to learn to read and put things together in context as a whole instead of picking apart a few sentences in a quote so you can bitch about something that has nothing to do with the main point. Stay free.
Reading back over what you have posted, boogityboy. I see nothing that has not been answered. Though, I work at around a fourth grade level, so I have to read it enough to understand it first. Simplifing what a person says into points of interest is the only way to have a constructive discussion that others can read. If every facet of your posts was answered. From your poor grammar and spelling to how you masquerade as a defender of opinions at the same time insulting everyone you disagree with. It would be a massive wall of text that no one would be interested in reading and would ultimately derail the thread and it would be closed. Only making it mandatory to start this discussion all over again.
No one is denying that arcade sticks are the gold standard and what is used most by the very best currently. However, if a person can have a multiple of best friends, then we can have multiple best input methods. It is almost funny that the arcade stick players seem to be becoming defensive, when they are the ones trying to kick Hit Box out. Can we not all get along?
You said that “it’s best to adhere to the stick standard if you want to stay internationally competitive” and that “(some) competitive scenes use arcade machines instead of consoles”.
No one said that wasn’t factual in the statement itself. What people have been saying is that this, while a fact, is a moot point given that arcade machine tournaments are significantly in the minority compared to console tournaments in the FGC. The ‘stick standard’ you mention only really is enforced in some parts of Asia – almost everywhere else, the ‘stick standard’ is simply a preference, not the rule.
So yes, if you want to remain 100% competitive in any environment, use a stick. However, the only times you would be required to use a stick and nothing else are mainly in Japan and China.
There you go. Nothing out of context.
Thank god someone replied with an intelligent answer. Thank you for understanding the point I was trying to make and my reason for agreeing with Aris’ Stick > other controller attitude, not his hating of the hitbox or calling for ban of them without making a holier than thou smartass remark. I applaud you sir.
haha holy shit… someone call PETA… this was no mere horse beating…
someone needs to start another fire by making a hitbox pattern arcade cab!
I pretty much said the same thing word for word :lol:
And i don’t want to hear that from the guy who’s been shooting off smartass comments in every post of this thread.
If I had the money to open up an arcade I would have done so months ago.
Alright guys, I don’t really have any real intent to play Ultimate, but I did get my hands on it today, so I figured I’d do due diligence.
I ran the SOCD tests on Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 on the 360:
[media=youtube]usfiAsWR4qU[/media]
Dear Lord it’s fixed, SOCD’s in Marvel are FIXED!
For technical info, SOCD tests match the results for SF4.
Merged the new thread into the older one.
I was hoping my thread would be more dedicated to the actual science and testing, and not let it be infested with bullshit whining and dead-horse-beating.
Then again that’s what the thread always was save for a select few people posting.
That’s what this banhammer is for.
whoa… jeez wow thats a lot of rage. i was by NO MEANS opposed to hitboxes. i was just merely stating that hitboxes tend to have a lot more tournament issues than joysticks. PLEASE READ MY POST IN CONTEXT. my argument was that input method (ie hitboxes, joysticks, gamepads) are only a small part of the picture so opposition to hitboxes are a bit over exaggerated.
and your argument that any custom joystick should be banned is really really brash and taking my statements out of context for 2 reasons.
- i NEVER SAID HITBOXES SHOULD BE BANNED. I SAID THEY SHOULD BE “OFFICIALLY TESTED FOR SODC” BEFORE BEING USED. that means for example, i go to my local tournament, local tournament organizers should test it for SODC cleaning and then deem it legal for the tournament.
- joysticks can NEVER have SODC issues from the JOYSTICK ITSELF. it is physically impossible (unless you wanna wire your microswitches in some whacky ways where you switch right and up or idk some other weird stuff involving extra button pushes and if you do wire it this way, you will severely handicap yourself by now making up and back impossible)
here is an illustration as to why joysticks even if they are custom are not questionable.
i thought i was in tech talk, where there was a basic knowledge of how joystick tech works?
i feel as though i was unfairly attacked in your post btw… but for your clarification next time i will write out longer posts to show you what i exactly mean because you completely read my post differently than i meant it.
A useless designation.
Give me five minutes, a hex driver, some strippers, and two wire nuts. (Less than $10 in supplies total)
Oh, that “useless” 3K extra button on that TE? Now it’s a block button in Vanilla Marvel 3. BUT NOT ULTIMATE WOO-HOO THANK YOU CAPCOM, RESTORE MY FAITH I DON’T GIVE A FUCK IF PUTTING ULTIMATE OUT AT RETAIL IS THE WORST RAW DEAL IMAGINABLE FUCK YES WE GOT THEM TO FIX IT!
Yo shoutouts to JohnGrimm and Husser_Brian, who I’m sure had a big hand in making sure Capcom would not forget about the issue.
…#hype
jesus christ. its like a fucking shark tank in here. DO I LITERALLY HAVE TO STATE EVERYTHING OUT? its like fucking fox news where a sound byte is taken as “obama is a secret muslim” shit
i said JOYSTICK ITSELF, which means NOT including the buttons.
also, im curious, what type of modification would you do to a joystick to allow double blocking without seriously debilitating yourself?
this is just a technical question, because the way i see it, the design of the joystick will at any given (lets say back) will only be allowed to combine with 2 any other given directions so you’re picking your poison by gaining something useful but losing something else
F
B U you lose the ability to jump forward
D
U
B D you lose the ability to block low
F
Way to come off like a complete douche, pal. Yes, you are in Tech Talk, where yes, we do know how joysticks work, which is why we say that yes, any joystick can be capable of SOCD just like the Hit Box can. Just as Amp mentioned, all you have to do is wire the left or right (or both) input that would normally be used by just your stick to instead be used by your stick AND any button you want it to. You can turn any button on the face of your joystick into an SOCD button.
If you want to enforce a rule that Hit Boxes have to be checked because of SOCD then you better line up everyone who enters a tourney, because every controller is capable of SOCD. It turns form a small matter of just letting everyone play regardless of SOCD because it’s in the game anyways and has nothing to do with any specific controller, or checking every single controller at an event to see if any of them are cheating. No one is going to enforce that rule because it’s ridiculous. No tournament has the man power to even do that.
You know why that wasn’t addressed? Because it’s a moot point. It doesn’t matter if the joystick itself disregarding the buttons is not capable of SOCD, because the second you add ANY buttons, that stick becomes SOCD capable. Unless you enjoy playing fighting games on an Atari controller, any stick can SOCD with some wiring.
Well, assuming you have a game that interprets SOCDs as double blocking, and using a controller that could sends SOCDs, then all it would take for a single button to press left+right is two small diodes. It’s the same thing as having a button activate two other buttons, easy as hell to wire up. Although it’d be even easier to assign one of the two directions to a button, so that button + joystick in other direction was dual block, that a way your normal playing would be completely unhindered, but you could hit the brakes and autoblock any left/right mixups you saw coming like phoenix traps+teleports or berserker slashes+akuma.
okay yeah it was douchy and i should have been the bigger man and not said anything but he did sort of rip apart my post out of context with ample attitude. I do not have a problem with hitboxes. especially official ones. I just think that it is much easier to hide some sort of unfair advantage in a hitbox than in a joystick, it sorta becomes painfully obvious if you see their fingers reaching for 4K/4P button and holding the back button at the same time. Also in a hitbox, if double blocking is allowed in that game, where is the line where they actually use it on purpose for an advantage and where one accidentally pushes two directions in a moment of panic
As for wiring idk left as left and right at the same time, that seems super counter intuitive because depending on which side you are at and even what game you are playing, you may not be able to move in the direction you want if you can move at all. can we just be civil? again i apologize for being douchy before, i still feel like i was unfairly attacked
It really should be noted that in Ultimate, SOCD’s are no longer an issue.
Marvel 3 was really the only major-played fighting game post-2009 that had unfair problems with SOCD’s, now those problems are completely fixed and double-blocking will never be an issue (in Marvel) again, no matter the controller.
No no, using only a few wire nuts and some spare time, you can take one of the extra buttons, (4P, 4K) on a TE and make it where pressing one button actually registers BOTH left and right directions in the console. I wouldn’t even need to mess with the stick, using that mod, I could create a button that functions near-identical to MK’s block button, except it’s in Marvel.
The worst thing about the above possibility is that after the mod is all said, done, and closed up, one would ever know the difference. The TE would look completely stock as if it were fresh out of the box.
Yo why are we still arguing about this? Ultimate fixed SOCD’s, Third Strike “Fixed” (though it didn’t need to) SOCD’s, and Skullgirls won’t have a problem with it…so what else is there?
…I guess there’s KoF…
Hiding an SOCD button would literally be the same thing on any controller. In mid match I guarantee you aren’t watching your opponent’s hands, and even still how can you determine if the button they’re using is legitimately for SOCD when a button configuration is in the game? They could easily map a button to their SOCD button to something in game that wouldn’t actually function, the only way you could prove it would be to open their stick.
And since double blocking is allowed, trying to differentiate when someone does an SOCD in a panic and when they intentionally do it is meaningless. It’s allowed, it doesn’t matter if they do it intentionally.
Because your stick would still function exactly the same, you’d play normally. What you might not be understanding is that your stick works perfectly fine, but you have a button that ALSO performs right or left or both. You can’t move when you SOCD in Marvel 3, but all you’d have to do is let go of the button and you can move again.