Yeah soooo not “A” tier - in fact he’s arguable worse that his Super counterpart. I wonder if they meant Bison?
The list is from kazunoko, not that magazine itself… see https://twitter.com/#!/Zhieeep/status/175114362179158016/photo/1
Kazunoko has made dumb lists before, like the AE yun list where yun had 8-2 with half of the cast and 7-3 with the other half, lol.
For Vega to be A in a tierlist , he has to have his positive match ups greatly outdo his negative match ups… with vega they are about even and a lot of 5-5, making him the perfect mid tier. (although the positive match ups he has are mostly against shit characters and the bad match ups vs “more important characters” like rufus,abel and cammy… ,but the tierlist does not discriminate in that front)
The fact that Akuma is listed as B tier alone should tell you that this list is just bs.
I wouldn’t take this seriously either. Only by outplaying the opponent could a character without invincible reversal nor anti-air win over classic top tiers.
Hakan is really no joke now, I’m wondering if him still being low tier isn’t more a feeling than a reality. Same for Gouken, and Chun-li, how the hell can they be low tiers with the powerfulls combo’s they’ve got now ?
It’s from a Seth player match-up point of view, nothing more. And it’s true I feel Seth being a little easier to destroy than other shotos, dunn’o why. Maybe he can’t eat so many CH-ST before being stunned I guess ^^. And Vega has some solutions his command throw, which is heavily punishable.
But still, 2012’s Claw isn’t AE Claw. The simple fact of the CH possibility to frame-trap (+1 when meaty) is quite a buff, and one less ultra startup frame can make a difference.
And there could be unlisted changes : it has been announced that the SHC would knock down. But even on block, a friend of mine felt that the EX one could land further than he did before.
Lol lil late on that. We found that out and I personally confirmed testing of that within a week of release. The results are in one of the ae threads
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Are we supposed to think that any tier list that comes out is instantly and universally agreed to be the measuring point by which every character relates to one another?
Instead of thinking it like that - which it isn’t - think of it like it actually is. Kazunoko thinks Vega is A tier. Does anyone here? Clearly not - even I don’t think he’s THAT good. But it’s reassuring to see someone out there really thinks Vega is a threat.
To be honest, I don’t get why everyone has to reassure themselves that yeah Vega is bad, Vega’s tools are bad, saul good right everyone? Someone who plays the game at a level higher than everyone here thinks Vega is among the top 10 characters in the game. It seems like people are so engrained in the preception that Vega is bad that they refuse to acknowledge someone else’s point of view - that’s all a tier list is, anyway.
For one, I have to acknowledge that this has changed my perception a little. Everyone knows I’ve always thought Vega is better than everyone else thinks he is, but now there’s one more out there who thinks he’s even better than I do. I’m pretty optimistic actually. Someone thinks Vega is really strong? Why shouldn’t I?
I’m pretty happy about it. I mean when you look at it Vega can hang with that S tier - which I would definitely agree is the S tier in this game. Cammy is tough, but the other 3? All good matchups, IMO.
Either way, don’t see why we have to cry foul about the list just because our character is possibly better than we think he is. Relax for a change.
lol yeah, Ken and Bison are listed higher than him too. Hilarious. Bison would kill for Akuma’s tools.
Vega’s tools are bad?
I think Vega is in the top 10 in this version. I only lose because I suck. Not because Vega sucks
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I totally disagree.
I totally disagree.
Well, then my friend will be glad he was faster : PC version is out from yesterday. =D
This assuming he didn’t read what you found before. ^^
We didn’t said Vega was bad. We said, he’s unlikely to be a top tier.
You must know it better than me : in tournaments (for example Makoto0123 vs Sako, or El cubano loco vs Filipino… or some goods players against Ryu), he can be good, but to me it looks like shotos have easier/better solution (mainly in a defensive point of view, but not only).
Claw isn’t bad at all. It’s just that he has weaknesses, whereas some characters seems not.
At least it’s my opinion. I respect yours as well.
Every character has weaknesses. Cammy is her throw range, Akuma and Seth have health weaknesses, Ryu’s weakness is that he’s average at everything. It’s just a matter of your character being able to handle their strengths and capitalize on their weaknesses.
Personally, IMO tier lists don’t really matter. In this game it’s more about player vs player than character vs character
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Why to both?. If there’s one thing I learned these last 6 months, it’s that the better I get, the more I see how much of a gap three is between someone like me and someone like joz or Tatsu. I can do every single thing they do, and mimic their play almost to the letter and still not have anywhere near the success they have in tournaments. Don’t get me wrong I COULD be as good as them. But there’s no replacement for experience. And although I’ve been playing since release, over half that playtime was non thinking random scrub play. It doesn’t matter that I can beat 99+% of everyone on psn or 80+% of everyone on xbl. If you beat people they are ass, then that just shows you’re better than ass, not that you’re good
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I just want to know what makes Adon S-rank.
That just…bodied all of my logical thinking.
I disagree. To be average is not a weakness. Besides, his zoning game is outstanding, his pressure game is good, his damage and his throw game are good.
We have to be thankeful for the rest of his abilities to be only « average ». =D
I agree with that? But it’s both of them IMHO when it comes to winning at high level.
I feel just like you.
I’ve got a good player, Giddy fortune fox in my contacts. Three months ago, i think i must have won a single round in a row of 10 fights. His combos were more reliable, he had some interesting strategies. Now I’ve got the combos and my own strategies, I almost score one perfect per day. And I faced him recently… Well his execution was perfect, and his mix-ups superiors : i won maybe three rounds in ten fights. He was just as much ahead of me than the first time ! X_X
I think it’s just like in every sport : you can get good to it, but i you wann’a be among the best you have to train specially for it. Just like a pro tennis-man will at another level than regular players. =)
Being average itself isn’t a weakness however, that typically means there are characters that do almost everything better than him. Ryu’s zoning game is average. His best poke is his crouching forward. With respect to Vega this becomes somewhat of a liability when used as a normal poke because Vega can beat it’s range. Vega has numerous ways to get around fireballs, both with and without meter. His dp and Tatsu are both high risk moves. He doesn’t control space as well as Sagat, or Abel, or Seth, or Akuma, or Balrog, or Dudley. He’s average. His pressure game is average IF he has 2 bars. Otherwise he’s just like anyone else with a dp. His throw game is average. His walk speed is average. Ryu is the definition of an average character. It’s not a weakness in of itself. It’s a weakness because he will always have to deal with someone that has at least 1 tool better than him, with it being a different tool every time
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Just so everyone knows (as the original poster), I think that Vega is slightly above/below average. I’ve no problem with Kaz’s tier list, I just highly disagree that he is “A” rank. OF COURSE player strength is way more important than charcater strength ON AVERAGE.
In Psychology human potential is measured in deviations, in this case we’d say Daigo has 2 to 3 more deviations (which is apparently about as high as it get’s for humans) higher than the standard - AKA his MAXIMUM human potential will always be higher than that of a person with a normal maximum capacity in SF (life isn’t fair, people are LITERALLY born with greater capacity than others in some areas). Arguably the best SF player to ever play the game - it is for instance HUMANLY impossible for someone to win EVO with Dan as his deviation would have to be far greater than that of Daigo - and people like that, just like in other sports don’t exist in the human realm.
Vega can’t be any higher than a low B at most if he can stay on his feet. Get knocked downed and that B quickly drops to a D- even with ultra 2…
Funny to be talking about standard deviations in a SF forum. ^^
BUT, we all know both skills and [S]the spoon[/S] tiers are a lie : the important is the Medketz ! =D
That’s not what’s happening. Vega is definitely not bad but he isn’t high A tier. Kazunoko may be a great player but this list is bs (and even missing Hawk…), and if he wrote that with only Seth in mind, its not a tier list…
IMO a tier list should always be matchup based (and calculating the scores), at least this way you can see why character X is ranked where they are and you have a base for discussion. (And the author has to think about it and not mindlessly listing characters)
Agree with wwmajin completely!!!
When discussing a tierlist, your discussion a mathmetical chart where one gets higher the more favourable match ups he has.
The tierlist has a fault that the match up charts are subjective… but because you precisely show your subjective matter in the match up chart, your correctly displaying objective tierlist based on your subjective match up chart.
The tierlist we have been fed by the japanese lately all miss a match up chart… tierlist without match up charts are like cars without gas, pretty useless.
Its fine that mr.kazunoko thinks vega is very strong A rank character.
But why? To be high tier, one has to have (way) more good match ups then bad… especially at the spot vega is residing in that A tier.
No honest vega player can say that vega has no bad match ups or is blowing out the water with positive ones… so how does he get A? There is no reason he should make that.
Its the same as blanka making it too high/top tier in mago’s 2012 list, i mean wth dude tell us what matches blanka dominates!
For all we know what happened was kazunoko met a vega player, he did shoryu/command grab mixup with shoryu , vega did kkk flip and punish he thought
"WTH WAS THAT"
he did shoryu/command grab mixup with command grab , vega did kkk flip and punish he thought
WHAT IS THAT MOVE!!!
he did option select shoryu on vega wake up, vega did kkk flip and punish he thought
"THAT IT DUDE, VEGA IS A-TIER FOR SURE, I CANNOT MIX HIM UP OR OPTION SELECT HIM WITH SETH OMG!"